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Author Topic: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book  (Read 4811 times)

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Offline EddieCampbell

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The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« on: July 22, 2012, 06:28:02 PM »
http://digitalcomicmuseum.com/index.php?dlid=6803

A friend of mine is writing on a larger subject in which this book comes up. Do we have any solid credit information on it. The sources he's dealing with have attached 'Al Capp studio' to the item, which sounds implausible. I said don't trust that till I see if I can come up with something more convincing.  JVJ?

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The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« on: July 22, 2012, 06:28:02 PM »

Offline EddieCampbell

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 06:31:13 PM »
Sorry, I haven't posted here before and didn't mean to put it in this section. :)

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 12:24:25 AM »
Haven't seen this book before, Eddie,
Could be Dan Barry inked by brother Sy, or perhaps Sy alone. Very slick, very professional, very good. I just wish it were more distinctive to my eyes.

FWIW, I can't see Al Capp having anything to do with this nor do I credit the 1957 date. It feels more like 1959 or 1960 to me.

Wish I could be of more help. Sorry.

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Offline EddieCampbell

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 01:46:40 AM »
Thanks, Jim. That's a help.
Barry's name was in the mix this morning when we discussed the piece, and the fact that he did this other thing (signed)

http://digitalcomicmuseum.com/preview/index.php?did=14507

for a client with with a political angle supports the attribution somewhat

best to you,

Eddie

Offline EddieCampbell

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 01:48:09 AM »
by attribution I mean

"Dan Barry (studio)?"

anything more than that would be going too far out on a limb.

Offline EddieCampbell

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 04:04:53 AM »
ps. one other thing. your astute dating based on style is useful. The proposed date has already been shifted to later based on internal evidence.

http://www.ep.tc/mlk/date-correction.html

<<state it was published in 1956 (when the Montgomery bus boycott ended), it could NOT have been published before at least the fall of 1957. The reason is that on page 13 of both English and Spanish versions (second scene), it depicts a famous incident that occurred here in Little Rock on September 4, 1957, at the start of the Central High crisis.>>

an even later date feels more comfortable, knowing how long things take to get done.

Offline jfglade

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 04:10:20 PM »
Didn't anyone notice that in the comments below the preview/download page the notice that "details about this story" can be found on the Grand Comics Database and there was an internal link address?

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 05:27:54 PM »
by attribution I mean

"Dan Barry (studio)?"

anything more than that would be going too far out on a limb.

Only reservation I'd have, Eddie is that the signed example LOOKS like Dan Barry. This Martin Luther King example doesn't quite. I LIKE to think that I could pick Dan's style out as he's much more easy for me to spot than brother Sy, and I simply don't see it here. Did Dan have a "studio" in the late '50s?

FWIW.

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Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 12:41:28 PM »
I've been wracking my brain over the name most attached to those 1950s Boys' Life sections, Eddie, and it's AL STENZEL. I'm not certain what his role was, but his name was attached (if I recall correctly) to strips with art by Al McWilliams, George Evans, Henry Sharp, and others. It MIGHT pay some dividends to pursue information about whatever studio he was running circa 1955-1960.

Good luck,

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Offline josemas

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 08:39:47 PM »
This site gives a 1958 publication date and also credits the Al Capp Studio with the art.

http://www.bookerrising.net/2010/03/martin-luther-king-jr-comic-book.html

The 1958 date is also backed up here.

http://sdvoice.info/martin-luther-king-jr-comic-books-to-be-rereleased-p1350-101.htm

Personally I get both Al McWilliams and Sy Barry vibes from the art in different parts of the book.

Best

Joe

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2012, 12:29:07 PM »
This site gives a 1958 publication date and also credits the Al Capp Studio with the art.

http://www.bookerrising.net/2010/03/martin-luther-king-jr-comic-book.html

The 1958 date is also backed up here.

http://sdvoice.info/martin-luther-king-jr-comic-books-to-be-rereleased-p1350-101.htm

Personally I get both Al McWilliams and Sy Barry vibes from the art in different parts of the book.

Best

Joe
Having read all of the info, Joe, it seems that everyone is determining an "earliest possible" date, not an actual publication date. Based on the internal evidence of the incidents depicted and referred to in the strip, it is nearly impossible for the publication date to have been 1957 or earlier. Hence they are assigning 1958, but it could just have easily been 1959 without contradicting any of the data.

I don't see the McWilliams, but I DO see why you might say it. The first half has subtle undertones of someone like Jim Mooney or another excellent DC artist. It's maddening to realize just how MUCH of my artist-spotting abilities rely on how the artist renders the CAUCASIAN face! It's definitely harder here.

I'm betting that ALL of the "Al Capp Studio" references stem from the one GCD entry. Perhaps the person who provided that info to GCD could help sort out the confusion by giving a citation source for this information. The problem with the web is that most sites don't list their sources, so we could simply be seeing ripples from one listing rather than a bunch of corroborating support.

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Offline josemas

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2012, 11:11:29 AM »
Part of an interview with Laura Hassler, daughter of the late Martin Hassler, who was the man at the FOR who conceived the idea for the MLK comic book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx3vxRpBkp4

Notes at the GCD indicate that Benton Resnick, the man credited with writing the book, had apparently been a general manager, editor and writer for Al Capp's Toby Press.
Toby had been defunct since 1955 but it's possible that Resnick used his Capp connection to get referrals for artists used in drawing the comic.

Best

Joe

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 02:24:18 PM »
FASCINATING, Eddie,
We certainly now know the source of the ACS credit, but it still doesn't connect logically or stylistically with "Al Capp Studios - Famous Cartoonists Studios". Capp certainly had a studio and they produced a lot of material other than the L'il Abner strip. However, and this remains my puzzle point, EVERYONE in the studio was adept at and most likely hired for imitating Al Capp. The Martin Luther King strip is more like a Johnston-Cushing effort than anything I can imagine coming out of the studio. Are there other non-cartoony products attributed to the Al Capp Studio? I haven't (and won't) re-read all of the text in the Kitchen Sink Abner volumes, but somesuch (if they exist) must have been touched upon there.

Laura Hassler's statements are certainly definitive of what she remembers and I have NO hard evidence to refute her. However, there is such a profound disconnect between Al Capp and this MLK style, that I'm lost in my inability to accept her recollections as fact. Sorry.

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Offline EddieCampbell

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 01:03:33 AM »
Jim,
Since I last looked in here I've revised my thinking on this.

 In one of the discussions of the comic somebody referred to"Al Capp's Toby Press." No source is given for this odd detail, but it does offer a chain of connections. Toby Press was run by Elliott Caplin, Al Capp's brother. I'm thinking somebody has mistaken the two at some point in the history of the piece. My current thought on the matter is that the job was done through, by referral or what ever,  E Caplin, who has a history with 'true' stories in comics (being  an editor for the Parents' Institute publications (including comic books that are filed here in the DCM) before setting up his own comics op (and writing Juliet Jones and Big ben Bolt at the time of the job in question). Benton Resnik's name appears as 'office manager' in the indicia of Toby Press's comics (spelled thus but spelled differently, Resnick, in most other discussions of the MLk comic.)

There seem to be several errors that have taken hold and been repeated around the place as facts (eg. Resnick as a 'blacklisted comics writer' following the Kefauver hearings, which is gibberish. Comics were blacklisted , not writers and artists.) Anyway, from all of this I'm presuming a Toby Press artist is the likely candidate for this job, and I don't know of any Dan Barry connection there, so let's lose that attribution. One book in The DCM  files seemed to offer some likely art connections, the Sorority Secrets #1. I couldn't find any definite stylistic cross -connections for the art, but oddly I think I see  one in the lettering, in the story 'The Wrong One', with its unusual sweeping caption boxes here and there, such as the one on the second panel, top of the third page. compare with the one on top of 'page 3' (thus numbered in the DCM files) of the MLK comic. This is all vague but helps me to feel confident that I'm looking in the right place. The Toby Press stories are all unsigned too, but you can't expect these things to be easy.

I wonder if Jim can suggest an artist for "the Wrong One" that might help me move forward?

best

Eddie

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: The Martin Luther King "Montgomery story" comic book
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 01:28:15 PM »
Jim,
Since I last looked in here I've revised my thinking on this.

 In one of the discussions of the comic somebody referred to"Al Capp's Toby Press." No source is given for this odd detail, but it does offer a chain of connections. Toby Press was run by Elliott Caplin, Al Capp's brother. I'm thinking somebody has mistaken the two at some point in the history of the piece. My current thought on the matter is that the job was done through, by referral or what ever,  E Caplin, who has a history with 'true' stories in comics (being  an editor for the Parents' Institute publications (including comic books that are filed here in the DCM) before setting up his own comics op (and writing Juliet Jones and Big ben Bolt at the time of the job in question). Benton Resnik's name appears as 'office manager' in the indicia of Toby Press's comics (spelled thus but spelled differently, Resnick, in most other discussions of the MLk comic.)

When I saw the "Toby Press" reference, Eddie, I began to smell the same rat as you. Al had nothing to do with Toby, but was better-known than Elliott and would have added a touch of glamour to the story. Interesting to note that Sorority Secrets has the lead story by what appears to be Stan Drake or his clone. i.e. someone with whom Elliot would collaborate.

Quote
There seem to be several errors that have taken hold and been repeated around the place as facts (eg. Resnick as a 'blacklisted comics writer' following the Kefauver hearings, which is gibberish. Comics were blacklisted , not writers and artists.)

Comics were tarred, feathers, demeaned and almost destroyed, but only individuals could be "blacklsted" - "to deny someone work in a particular field, or to ostracize a person from a certain social circle." Whether any comic book writers were ever blacklisted is not a subject upon which I can speak authoritatively, but I would hesitate to label such a report as "gibberish".

Quote
Anyway, from all of this I'm presuming a Toby Press artist is the likely candidate for this job, and I don't know of any Dan Barry connection there, so let's lose that attribution.

Let's definitely LOSE the "Dan Barry" attribution. I KNOW that it is NOT Dan. MAYBE it's Sy Barry, but not Dan. I apologize for introducing that red herring. And, while I'm not familiar with all of the Toby artists, I went to the Who's Who [http://www.bailsprojects.com) and put Toby Press into the search field. The resultant list of writers and artists was unhelpful to me. I knew the styles of 90% of the artists and can eliminate them as possibilities.

Quote
One book in The DCM  files seemed to offer some likely art connections, the Sorority Secrets #1. I couldn't find any definite stylistic cross -connections for the art, but oddly I think I see  one in the lettering, in the story 'The Wrong One', with its unusual sweeping caption boxes here and there, such as the one on the second panel, top of the third page. compare with the one on top of 'page 3' (thus numbered in the DCM files) of the MLK comic. This is all vague but helps me to feel confident that I'm looking in the right place. The Toby Press stories are all unsigned too, but you can't expect these things to be easy.

The Toby artists are not so easy to ID - at least not by me. Here's my take on Sorority Secrets:
The Secret - Stan Drake?/Alex Kotsky? (someone very good)
To Win Your Love - probably Art Peddy pencils under Jack Abel's smothering inks.
The Wrong One - signed David Gantz
The Faint Heart - signed Bob Brown and David Gantz
Kid Sister - dunno, though I get some hints of George Klein-ish inks

Quote
I wonder if Jim can suggest an artist for "the Wrong One" that might help me move forward?

best

Eddie


I don't think that David Gantz is going to move you forward, Eddie. This is some of his final realistic comic book work. From 1954/55 onward, he focused on his cartoony style. If the lettering is a clue, sadly the Who's Who does not have any credits for Toby letterers. I still believe that this MLK strip was produced by one of the advertising studios like Johnstone & Cushing. Al Wenzel, who I mentioned earlier, seems to have bought out J&C in 1963. I seem to remember a lot of "Al Wenzel" in Boys' Life - but I have no way to pin down the dates. Sorry. Wenzel is NOT the MLK artist, but someone associated with him, J&C, or another comics-producing studio IS. That's my suggestion.

I agree 100% that "Al Capp" is a mistake. I also agree that Elliott Caplin is a clue. Let me know where it might lead.

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