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Author Topic: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?  (Read 3775 times)

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Offline jonmathias

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Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:00:35 PM »
I'm just asking because I'm confused.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/cce/firstperiod.html
http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogofcopy19673212libr#page/383/mode/1up

According to these links, the copyright was renewed?


PS. I love the museum!

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Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:00:35 PM »

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 05:32:32 AM »
Looks like the first 5 issues (at least) were renewed in 1967.

Anyone get the sense a lot of Nedor books are really orphaned works, not PD?

I'm just asking because I'm confused.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/cce/firstperiod.html
http://www.archive.org/stream/catalogofcopy19673212libr#page/383/mode/1up

According to these links, the copyright was renewed?


PS. I love the museum!

Offline Yoc

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 06:57:15 AM »
That's exactly the feeling we have Roy.
As always, if the copyright owner were to ever approach us to remove them we would comply.

Offline John C

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 07:21:20 AM »
First, it's worth noting that there is no "the copyright."  Each issue has an independent copyright, so relying exclusively on the "first renewal" list overlooks which issues may or may not have been renewed.

In any case, to follow up on Yoc's comments, we've been trying to work through the details on our end, but it's been slow-going for a number of reasons.  There are a few books here and there that got "grandfathered in," from site to site, having been assumed public domain for literally decades, that haven't been specifically researched by us.

On top of that, there's circumstantial evidence that many renewals were filed by people who didn't own the copyright.  Those transfer records aren't online, though, and so will presumably require my spending a few days at the Library of Congress to track down.  But it's worth pointing out that "rights transfers" very rarely include copyrights, so many renewals by someone other than the original holding company (as opposed to an individual who died and the work was renewed by an heir) can be outright bogus.

(Legally speaking, because the books come from contributors, we're a "safe haven" under the DMCA.  As long as there's confusion about the status--so don't try this with the Avengers movie--and we remove books when asked by the copyright holder, we're in good shape as an organization.  In the case of Standard/Nedor, nobody has been sent a Cease and Desist or DMCA notice, which argues for the abandonment theory at a minimum.)

The upshot, as always, is that we're comfortable with what we have posted (though I'd always like to be more comfortable) at this time, but anybody using the books for another purpose would be well-advised to do their own research and make their own decisions, possibly including a visit to an Intellectual Property lawyer, if you're planning on involving money.

Offline jonmathias

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 01:48:36 PM »
Thanks for the answers.

So the comics are either orphan works (copyright holder is out of business?) or the ones that renewed the copyright didn't really HAVE the copyright. If they DID own the copyright, they may not have renewed every issue.

I may be slightly less confused now. :)

Offline John C

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 08:34:31 AM »
That's mostly it.  The "orphan work" idea (not a formal legal concept, by the way), though, has nothing to do with who's in business.  It's more a matter of, assuming that anybody still owns the rights, they either don't know or don't care, and so aren't doing anything about it.

Since copyright infringement isn't a criminal act, the risk is in lawsuits, so "orphan" is enough for some people.  However, unlike trademark law where you MUST defend your monopoly or lose it, you can be arbitrary in who you sue over copyright infringement.  So, what's orphaned today (or what seems orphaned in all the cases you see) doesn't mean the next guy won't get sued.

Offline narfstar

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 10:16:34 AM »
Even though they can not be carried on DCM, what do you think about GK and Dell. Would you think Toka, or Jungle War Stories  or GK non-licensed work like Brothers of the Spear and Close Shaves of Pauline Peril (great series btw) and their pre-1964 licensed stuff that was probably not renewed like Ben Casey.

Offline John C

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 10:37:32 AM »
I haven't looked deeply (and it's never a good idea to generalize by publisher, so take this with a grain of salt), but the few issues I've looked at for various projects were renewed by Western Publishing.  Since they were the shop that produced the material, I imagine they're probably legitimate.

Offline glammazon

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2012, 04:27:47 PM »
Have been using the catalog myself from time to time to determine the ownership of certain properties. :D

Offline darkmark (RIP)

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 12:17:16 PM »
DC bought Young Love and Young Romance from Prize in the early '60s.  With Joe Simon's consent, they reprinted stories from Black Magic in the '70s.  Wonder if they could lay claim to Green Lama, Frankenstein, Dr. Frost, and all the rest if they wanted?  Ditto for the Nedor characters, who showed up in TOM STRONG and TERRA OBSCURA.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 12:52:55 PM »
Were those characters in those two titles? If not, then, no.

For Tom Strong/Terra Obscura, they certainly have a copyright on the stories, trademark on Terra Obscura, and any changes they made to the characters themselves.

From PDSH: Many of Nedor's comics "were renewed by Popular Library, which was eventually bought out by Fawcett Books. When Fawcett Books went out of business Popular Library was sold to Warner Brothers, who owns DC. However, it is not known whether the copyright to the comics was part of these sales. At any rate, a number of different publishers are currently using characters who originated in these comics, and whoever actually owns them doesn't seem to know or care, so any action over them is highly unlikely."

Unless Warner is biding it's time, waiting for someone to actually make money off of them ... then BAM! Sue their pants off. ;-)

DC bought Young Love and Young Romance from Prize in the early '60s.  With Joe Simon's consent, they reprinted stories from Black Magic in the '70s.  Wonder if they could lay claim to Green Lama, Frankenstein, Dr. Frost, and all the rest if they wanted?  Ditto for the Nedor characters, who showed up in TOM STRONG and TERRA OBSCURA.

Offline John C

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 04:35:09 PM »
Unless Warner is biding it's time, waiting for someone to actually make money off of them ... then BAM! Sue their pants off. ;-)

It sounds stupid, but it's within their rights to do that, if they do own the copyright.  They could also be secretly licensing the characters to everybody who uses them.

More likely, though, is that they don't own them or they've forgotten them.  Notice that they don't seem to care about use of the Black Bat (the Pulp character), which was definitely part of The Popular Library.  If they own anything, that's among the most likely properties, and considering the resemblance to a certain DC character, you'd think there's a more than trivial motivation to leverage the rights to their fullest potential.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 05:26:30 PM »
I missed DarkMark's reference to Black Magic.

@JohnC:
Well, I was actually insinuating a malicious intent on Warner's part, but never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Were those characters in those two titles? If not, then, no.

For Tom Strong/Terra Obscura, they certainly have a copyright on the stories, trademark on Terra Obscura, and any changes they made to the characters themselves.

From PDSH: Many of Nedor's comics "were renewed by Popular Library, which was eventually bought out by Fawcett Books. When Fawcett Books went out of business Popular Library was sold to Warner Brothers, who owns DC. However, it is not known whether the copyright to the comics was part of these sales. At any rate, a number of different publishers are currently using characters who originated in these comics, and whoever actually owns them doesn't seem to know or care, so any action over them is highly unlikely."

Unless Warner is biding it's time, waiting for someone to actually make money off of them ... then BAM! Sue their pants off. ;-)

DC bought Young Love and Young Romance from Prize in the early '60s.  With Joe Simon's consent, they reprinted stories from Black Magic in the '70s.  Wonder if they could lay claim to Green Lama, Frankenstein, Dr. Frost, and all the rest if they wanted?  Ditto for the Nedor characters, who showed up in TOM STRONG and TERRA OBSCURA.

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: Why is Exciting Comics public domain?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 06:15:01 PM »
never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

LOL. Too true.

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