- +

Author Topic: Leaping tall buildings  (Read 3506 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Indywesternfan

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 0
Leaping tall buildings
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:38:28 PM »
Just finished reading an interesting article on the Wall Street Journal website. There is a new book about the history of comic book
creators that is coming out soon. Leaping Tall Buildings. The article mentions how the Avengers has made over 500 million dollars at the
box office and yet the typical comic book has a print run of 230,000. People love to watch the Avengers, Spiderman, Batman at the movies
but they don't buy the comic books. The author mentions that the typical comic book story is so convoluted that most people need a translation so they can understand what is going on. They mentioned Watchman which was written with a beginning, middle and an end.
I always use to think I did not leave comic books, they left me. To me comics don't seem to be much fun anymore.   Brian

Digital Comic Museum

Leaping tall buildings
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:38:28 PM »

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15342
  • Karma: 61
  • 15 Years Strong!
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012, 09:31:45 PM »
Hi Indy,
I've heard your feelings echoed by many older collectors out there.  The 'dark and gritty' 90's was the turning point for me.
Most of the hero movies are written completely different from their source material.  As you say - most need a start, middle and end though I'm starting to see the trilogy becoming more common so that might change too.
It's rare that you'll find a series that is written with an end in mind though I can name a couple - The wonderful 'Y-The Last Man' and 'The Boys'.  I'd think it would help writers a lot if they knew what they were aiming for at the end.  Most hero books are written to change but don't change anything important or a new writer comes along and retcons everything back again.

Offline jfglade

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 489
  • Karma: 7
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 12:15:35 AM »
 I'll have to take a look at the Wall Street Journal website (not something I would usually do), Indy. I can't afford to waste money on comics any longer and I doubt if I would if I could, certainly not those from the Big Two anyway. There certainly seems to be no assurance that even if I found a series which I wanted to follow, which seems unlikely, it wouldn't be plowed under with little or no warning as a sacrifice to big sales hoped to be garnered by BIG CHANGES WHICH YOU CAN'T MISS.

 I also find that I'm not reading much new fiction either, and that my interests are now mainly in history and biographies. I used to read a fair amount of science-fiction, but I stopped reading it once the Walter Gibson stood that field on its head. It could be that now that I'm in the future, I'm disappointed in how it turned out.

Offline paw broon

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 307
  • Karma: 9
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2012, 02:38:54 AM »
It could be that now that I'm in the future, I'm disappointed in how it turned out.
I feel a bit like that also.
"The 'dark and gritty' 90's was the turning point for me." Yoc.
Ditto.

Although I have little time for new offerings from the big 2, I also haven't rushed out to see the films.  Having seen trailers that left me cold, I felt no great excitement about these screen versions.  But there are comics out there which are reasonably well-crafted, art and story and which I and others on here and CB+ find entertaining and enjoyable. A mention of some examples might nudge some others to have a try.  But these are my taste, not necessarily anyone elses and I don't, for example like The Boys.
The Sixth Gun from ONI;
Near Death from Image;
Fatale from Image;
Saucer Country from Vertigo is shaping up well;
The Activity from Image - ditto.

I really enjoyed Hawaiian Dick (Image), from a few years ago and that was thanks to a recommendation from narfstar.
Also, there are English translations of French and Belgian albums available and I've been reading the newer Blake and Mortimer tales, by Van Hamme and Benoit,  and Lady S , by Van Hamme and Aymond. IRS is coming up as soon as my local library turns it up.  Also, The Scorpion is available in English and is very good.

If you try a local library (if you still have one, as in the UK there are many being closed because of austerity cuts), they often have a stock of tpb's and g.n.'s.  That's how I found Lady S.


Stephen Montgomery

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15342
  • Karma: 61
  • 15 Years Strong!
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2012, 08:03:47 AM »
I use my local library a lot for graphic novels.  That's how I read 'The Boys' and am now read 'Preacher' by the same writer.
Mice Templar is one I'd highly recommend as well btw.  Good stuff and I'd say safe for kids 10 and over due to some gore.

Offline krankyboy

  • Repeat Donor!
  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
  • Karma: 15
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 03:51:20 PM »
There's also the fact that comic books used to be written primarily for younger readers, with "one and done" stories in titles that anyone could pick up as a starting point, until the industry completely abandoned their traditional base in the late 80's/early 90's for the collectors market.

When I was in middle school (and it wasn't that long ago), all of my friends in the seventh grade had a comic in his backpack. But now, I just read that the average age for a comic book buyer is 35 years old with a shrinking readership. And I have a feeling that the boat has sailed on every getting kids back again. They'll gladly watch cartoons and movies with Spider-Man or the Avengers or Superman, but wading through the "gritty" and convoluted morass of modern comics just isn't going to happen. Good luck explaining the last ten years of Spider-Man to a little kid, or what the difference is between 616 and Ultimate in Marvel, or what the "DC New 52" is supposed to mean. The adult geeks could tell you in loving, almost self-congratulatory detail, but it wouldn't make an ounce of sense to someone just starting the fifth grade. Factor in that spinner racks and newspaper stands are swiftly vanishing (not to mention comic shops themselves), and it doesn't bode well for the future.

Anyway, there's my two cents. Or one cent, depending on what you think of it.  ;)

Offline Roygbiv666

  • Repeat Donor!
  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
  • Karma: 15
    • Standard Comics
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2012, 05:08:50 PM »
Similar discussion occurring on the John Byrne forum:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41873

Offline misappear

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: 10
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2012, 10:16:08 AM »
The amount of series, spin-offs, and specials issued by Marvel and DC must be mandated by the continued corporate push for market share.  That the print market is shrinking is undeniable, and the replacement generation of readers does not exist.  The medium may have simply outlived its natural lifespan, and is being supported by a large group of fans who son;t want to see it die and go away forever.  Just speculation.

I remember scrounging around as a child for a quarter here or there to afford to by a couple of comics.  Even as daunting as that task was back in the early 60's, the price of comics still seemed to reflect the value of entertainment I was getting.  At about $4.00 average, I just don't see current comics providing $4.00 worth of entertainment--especially considering that the major companies will spin out a story requiring readers to spend a lot more than just that $4.00 to fully realize the entire plot line after spin-offs, sub-series, and such. 

I took a look at the first couple of months of the DC relaunch, and realized quickly that the writing was just not good enough to command a renaissance of the medium, the characters, or anything.  Just a marketing gimmick.  In fact, some of the writing was pretty damned poor. 

Retailers complain that illegal downloads are readily available on all new material within 24-48 hours.  True.  Simply put, it's the manifestation of something not worth the purchase price.

--David

Offline John C

  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Karma: 3
    • John's Blog
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2012, 05:06:16 PM »
A big deal I see with comics isn't necessarily the gore or the length (though they turn me off, personally), but that the stories aren't really "about" anything anymore.

I mean, it used to be that Batman stories were (in general) detective or crime stories that happened to star Batman.  Starting in the late '70s, it seems to me that the stories became increasingly just exposition of how much X Batman is in comparison to Y.  Is Batman stronger than the Joker?  Is he better than Ra's al Ghul at competitive eating?

If I wanted to spend my days looking at illustrated but meaningless statistics, I'd collect baseball cards.

When Roy Thomas introduced the world to Retroactive Continuity, comics became even more painfully self-interested, even though I think Thomas got it right.  They started telling extensive stories about the early days, retelling the (ack!) origins, and fleshing out exactly what was in that sandwich that Cyclops ate in that one issue.

Continuity is great, but you don't tell stories about continuity any more than the list of Egyptian Dynasties or the make and model of Chekhov's infamous gun is a compelling tale.  Continuity is the stage.  You set the story in, on, or around it.

That's the worst part of reboots.  Rather than hit the ground running and excite us over the potential of characters and their world, every single writer feels the need to slowly and carefully introduce his cast of characters and make sure we know why everybody is where they are, and we never get to the actual story before falling asleep.  I've said it many times before, but never lead with an origin in anything more than a thumbnail; anything we need to know can be explained as--get this--part of the story, even if it's a flashback.

Because the other extreme stinks, too, and that shows up from time to time:  The writer that just draws content from obscure sources and thinks his story "follows naturally" from what he thinks he remembers reading in that one book, so there's no reason to actually explain anything.

Hm.  Here's the scariest thing you're going to hear today.  "I'm going to cut this short."  If you think about one end of a beast swallowing the other, you'll realize that there are two ways such a thing could happen.  I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader which one makes more sense in the context of comics.

Offline Amberjack

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: 0
    • Comics on the Brain
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2012, 10:56:01 AM »
I've been drifting away from modern comics for a decade or so. I find myself far more willing to commit to a comic series that has no corporate overlord to appease.
Instead, I am more interested in comics where characters can change and, as you mention before, there's an end in sight to the story. Even Golden and Silver Age comics recognize this. Almost all their comics are non-serial in nature. I just want a story to have an ending.
I first became disillusioned by the serial nature of comics when it dawned on me that the X-Men's five billion dangling plotlines would never be wrapped up. I was wrong though, they did wrap some of them up, but added three for every one that was completed.
In more recent years, I've been thoroughly disgusted by the level of violence in comics. There's no way I'd let my kids look at some of the gorefests that the Big Two publish. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15342
  • Karma: 61
  • 15 Years Strong!
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 01:09:44 PM »
Hi AJ,
I agree with you about books for kids.  Are your kids into comics at all?  What do you recommend for reading if you are still reading anything?
With today's prices I find the library the best place to read GN collections of different titles though what I'm reading I'd never let a kid read.  'Planetary' was another one I left out in my earlier list of series with a planned finish.

Offline JVJ (RIP)

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 58
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 05:27:38 PM »
Jeez! You are just SO negative, John C.
Now you want stories to be ABOUT something, too. Just dig the groovy pictures, Man! GGA and all that. You READ comics?

Peace, Jim (|:{>
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline Amberjack

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: 0
    • Comics on the Brain
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 06:23:18 PM »
Hi AJ,
I agree with you about books for kids.  Are your kids into comics at all?  What do you recommend for reading if you are still reading anything?
With today's prices I find the library the best place to read GN collections of different titles though what I'm reading I'd never let a kid read.  'Planetary' was another one I left out in my earlier list of series with a planned finish.

Only one of my kids is old enough to read, and despite my best efforts comics have been labeled "not cool."

Look for some of the kids books published by Top Shelf. They do some nice, yet eclectic work with all of their titles.

Also try Roger Langridge's Snarked! comic.

Superhero titles that I like are Tom Stillwell's Honor Brigade, which he is now serializing digitally. Kirby Genesis, from Dynamite has been enjoyable though on the expensive side.

I've also enjoyed a lot of other Dynamite Comics titles, namely Dejah Thoris, Lone Ranger and Red Sonja. Lone Ranger is especially good. Look for Rangers with art by Sergio Cariello -- he's a wonderful artist.
 
I like to pick up books by Moonstone. They mostly focus on New Pulp heroes, so that may be an acquired taste.

I still read stuff from the Big Two, but usually only items I find on discount. You can check out my quickie reviews here: Comics On The Brain's mini reviews

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15342
  • Karma: 61
  • 15 Years Strong!
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 08:17:31 PM »
Thanks for the pointers AJ.
I haven't been in a comic shop in many years.  The library has done a good  job getting me stuff so far.  I'll take a look for some of your suggestions.

Back in the 80s I enjoyed 'Mazing Man and 'Captain Carrot and His Zoo Crew'.  It was a big hoot seeing 'Mazing Man in the Batman Brave and Bold cartoon's last season.

Offline narfstar

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1675
  • Karma: 74
Re: Leaping tall buildings
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2012, 05:40:42 AM »
A big problem with Moonstone is not knowing if a series has been canceled and the end goes unseen. Will I ever see the coclusion of Phases of the Moon?