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International Comics topic
paw broon:
Thanks for those thinks. But some other ideas and thoughts came to mind on the bus this morning re. your Star Trek analogy, and now your comments on mad scientists have caused me to ponder further. This 1st. example isn't about comics but, here in the U.K. we had 2 private detectives (2 of many), Sexton Blake and Dixon Hawke, who each had their regular "pulp" series (I use "pulp" even though they are not pulps as Americans would know them) and in the '40's, each of these detectives regularly came up against mad scientists, threats to society and in both cases enemies who could be considered to be more than simply splendid human specimens - Marko the Miracle Man and Waldo the Wonderman. No ordinary bank robberies here more infernal plots and machinery and almost superhuman wrongdoing. Then again, a prose writer doesn't have the same problem with the reader forgetting who the protagonists are as is necessary in a superhero comic.
As for Star Trek, not being the biggest fan, my preferences are for ships in space, cloaking devices, strange new worlds, much the same as I read in Honor Harrington or The Lost Fleet or McDevitts empty universe books or strange alien artifacts, preferably with extra dimensions inside. There regularly seemed to be too much soul searching and giant hands in space for me. That's probably why I prefer Babylon 5 to a lot of Star Trek.
"Look at it this way: Is Batman really that much more absurd than a woman running to catch her train in high heels and a tight skirt?" John C
Love it.
Of course, a couple of those guys are dressed like clowns, deliberately, well, jesters and the like. Not forgetting.........................TA-DA, The Crimson Clown. Great name, daft costume, exciting stories. Just as well there has never been a comics adaptation.
John C:
I actually used Star Trek figuring that Kirk and Spock would be pretty iconic, not that it's the best science-fiction ever. But if you pick a random episode, I think you'll find that the episodes that are almost entirely satire (planets of Nazis, planets of 1920s gangsters, the post-atomic Cold War planet where Kirk flips out because they're mispronouncing the United States Constitution) are enjoyable even when they're outright stupid, whereas the episodes that try to be smart or unique (planet of witches, explaining the Greek gods as aliens, android takeovers) don't ever seem to hit the mark.
The same generally goes for the other shows in the franchise, too. Deep Space Nine worked because it tried really hard to fit the mold of poking our world. Voyager...cast women and called it a day, as far as I could tell, and I still can't believe it lasted seven years.
Babylon 5 was a different animal entirely, being more or less a hundred-ish hour movie inspired by Babylonian myth. A shame Crusade got canned. The second season scripts I've seen floating around were far better than the stuff that made it to air.
As for prose, the other advantages are that you can have a longer lead time, don't need to worry about how long it'll take to draw, and can take the plot (almost) as far out as you want. If you had to push out a couple of book per month on these characters, you'd probably get the same repeating plots that magically restore the status quo at the end.
Funny thing, since we're picking at stuff, though. I always find it amazing that, of all the movements for "realism" I've seen over the years, nobody has ever touched the two most absurdly unrealistic aspects of the setting. The secret identity is a terrible idea, since framing you is trivial among the "due process" problems and concealment problems. And no sane group of "best people in the world" would waste an afternoon every week sitting around a conference table and "training."
I really just marvel (no pun intended) every time I pick up a Justice League book and see Batman or Aquaman in some sort of sparring match with the other heroes. I like to imagine the scene they didn't show, where he says something like, "well, I spend sixteen hours a day fighting maniacs, skulking around alleys, and dodging bullets, but sure, I can waste half a day doing exactly those same things with you instead for fun while my home burns to the ground. But only if we can vote on something irrelevant afterward like where to hang the Giant Kayak of Doom."
It's possible, though, that I like comics for different reasons than most people...
narfstar:
"Look at it this way: Is Batman really that much more absurd than a woman running to catch her train in high heels and a tight skirt?" John C
Love it.
Yeah but which would you rather watch on a big screen tv ;)
paw broon:
"The secret identity is a terrible idea, since framing you is trivial among the "due process" problems and concealment problems. " John C
I suppose that's true except, there have been some strange legal results from English and Scottish courts in the last few years (Scotland has a different legal system from England, also a different education system) and I don't want to go into this sort of stuff in public - too serious. Surely the rationale in the secret i/d - alter ego thingy is to avoid the bad guys, or the polis, if you are one of the bad guys, getting at those close to you, or getting you if you are the miscreant. Why bankrobbers wear balaclavas etc.
"I really just marvel (no pun intended) every time I pick up a Justice League book and see Batman or Aquaman in some sort of sparring match with the other heroes. I like to imagine the scene they didn't show, where he says something like, "well, I spend sixteen hours a day fighting maniacs, skulking around alleys, and dodging bullets, but sure, I can waste half a day doing exactly those same things with you instead for fun while my home burns to the ground. But only if we can vote on something irrelevant afterward like where to hang the Giant Kayak of Doom." John C
Excellent. Mind, in the early JLA, that sort of thing never bothered me because it wasn't realistic, just some colourful entertainment. Now though, when it's all so serious and (supposed to be) realistic - EH? How can they be bothered. Maybe they don't do that anymore. It's been a few years since I read a JLA comic.
As for t.v. s.f., you'll have to take a look at the ancient BBC kids serials, Pathfinders In Space/Mars/Venus written by Malcolm Hulke and Eric Paice 1960 & 61. Dodgy sets, missed cues, duff effects but great entertainment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX0UG_H4QOA
John C:
What really nags me about secret identities is, for lack of a better word, the "Green Lantern Principle." Heroes are fearless and honest...except that they're terrified to put their real names to their actions and lie about it pathologically.
I support the right to remain anonymous for the average person, but when that involves violence and assisting the authorities, it seems more trouble than it's worth. Court cases will get thrown out, because there's no arresting officer to verify that the suspect's rights were protected. The masked identity can be easily faked for the public. A lot of technology can see through the mask.
But you're right, when I'm reading the older stories, I don't think anything of it, because it's just part of the setting. It's only a problem when the writer spends time either mocking or "fixing" the unrealistic aspects of older comics--usually things that don't need fixing, like giving some hero a reason to use his powers responsibly--that I start looking at how even weirder it looks for heroes to collect trophies, build secret fortresses, and elect leaders, and that part is still taken as an article of faith.
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