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International Comics topic
vaillant:
A sequence (image taken from the blog conversazionisulfumetto.files.wordpress.com).
If someone’s interested I have the full story (I own the complete 1941 run of the journal).
--- Quote ---Cute avatar V Smiley
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Thanks Yoc. I am very affectioned to Craveri. When Jacovitti, as a boy, sent his work to the redaction in Rome, Craveri said: "What are you waiting? Put him at work!". He was a great man, besides being a real giant in the pre-war comics scene here in Italy, and he almost died in poverty. When he was ill, Jacovitti, contacted by people which were helping him, sent a generous sum of money to help him and his wife.
John C:
Quick comments so I don't derail the conversation too much...
Nostalgia: I agree with Paw that it's definitely not the limit. Mostly, I'm not fond of the books I started out with (early '80s stuff). Batman led me to All-Star Squadron, which led me to Justice League, which led me to back issues where the JSA appeared, which led me eventually to Golden Age stories. To me, the lack of homogeneity outweighs the often-thin plots.
Superheroes: Valliant hit the nail on the head, I think, that "superheroes" aren't a storytelling genre. Like science-fiction, it's just stage dressing. At their best, Batman stories are crime comics, Superman stories are horror comics, Spider-Man stories are romance comics, and so on. The problems just happen to be resolved by a protagonist who's a tiny bit too happy with his body. When the writers forget this, things are less entertaining.
(A good analogy is probably Star Trek. The episodes that "work" are Gulliver's Travels in space. Those that don't are about BEING IN SPACE, all-caps.)
paw broon:
Ah, vaillant, that's so good and I'd love to read the rest of the story. WW2 has been going for a while and I'm curious to find out how they got there and how they get away (if they do) It's lovely stuff and I find myself more and more these days, enjoying high quality humorous art and storytelling of this type. I'll have try to search out some Harry Banger stuff (he did lots for G.G.Swan). It surprises me that there hasn't been more comment re. D.D. Watkins (perhaps most on here haven't seen enough of his work) because he's considered a bit of a genius, not only in Scotland and his Broons Sunday strips from the early '60's are about as good as this genre gets.
"Valliant hit the nail on the head, I think, that "superheroes" aren't a storytelling genre. Like science-fiction, it's just stage dressing." John C
That's very true but more with the "super" detective, non-powered characters. There are so many in comics history who don supersuits when they could do the same work in everyday clothes. And that cloak wearing thing has always bothered me. Up a dark alley with a couple of hard men trying to knock your head off, wouldn't a cape just trip you up and hamper all those "moves"? There is a case to be made for crimefighters donning disguise to protect loved ones and to, hopefully, instill fear into the hearts of evildoers. But Bulldog Drummond; The Saint; The Toff; Rip Kirby; Challengers; Suicide Squad; Secret Six; Fightin 5 etc. never bothered with masks and costumes but still got the job done.
Actually, there is something wrong with my argument but I can't quite figure out what it is and anyway, I forgot that Bulldog Drummond and his mates in the book, The Black Gang , donned robes and hoods to hide their i/d's from the police.
There is something colourful and exciting about supersuits and masks and all that pallaver. Another example from Spanish comics, El Capitan Trueno - no mask; El guerrero del Antifaz - masked. (I know he's supposed to be hiding his true i/d for reasons explained at the start of the series but, really, hundreds of issues later? I'm a huge fan of both and they are both exciting well told comic stories.
tilliban:
Interesting point about that “superheroes are no genre”.
Seems to me that one can classify a certain comic in more than just one category, though.
I love Jacovitti, there were German editions of a few of his COCCO BILL western parodies – haven’t got them, sadly.
And Mordillo I know more for his short animated cartoons. They used to be quite popular in central Europe. Just some years ago they were shown on subway screens while people were waiting for the trains to pull into the station. Hmmm.
John C:
--- Quote from: paw broon on March 30, 2012, 02:39:26 AM ---Actually, there is something wrong with my argument but I can't quite figure out what it is
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Look at it this way: Is Batman really that much more absurd than a woman running to catch her train in high heels and a tight skirt?
Actually, I choose to believe that most of these guys aren't "really" dressed like clowns. It's just the artist's way of making sure you don't forget which character is which. The same reason Shaggy from Scooby Doo has seemingly been wearing that same ratty green shirt every day for half a century. (It also resolves contradictions between issues and terrible stories: The writer got it wrong in hopes of a more entertaining product.)
And genre-wise, keep in mind I am thinking of the comics "at their best." So yes, it's easier to see that a masked detective is just a detective with a mask, but if you look at everyone's favorite Superman stories, what are they usually about? Either a mad scientist (Luthor) with an invention threatening the city or a scary, angry or mindless alien come to destroy either the world or Superman himself. Take away the cape and the powers, and you have a light-hearted horror story, basically. (There's a huge exception that the Superman of the '70s were almost always involved in coming-of-age stories, either discovering more of Krypton's past or finding his place in the world. I think the shift works, but a lot of people don't.)
I suspect that's also why Aquaman gets a bad reputation. The writers consistently want him to be a horror protagonist or (worse) an Arthurian protagonist, and they don't fit. Why? Because he's a Western hero, bringing a code of honor to the lawless seas and coastal towns. Fighting Cthulhu or Moby Dick or the Pacific Garbage Patch just reminds us that he's stuck in the ocean and the writer is forced to remind us (in a very loud, authoritative voice) that the ocean makes up more than three quarters of the Earth's surface, so he is too every bit as important as the Flash...
I think (on topic) that's something that American writers struggle with without knowing it and non-American writers never picked up, struggling instead (as you hint at) issues of whether a person could easily reproduce the acts in the comic exactly as they're portrayed. The feedback has produced the awful idea that comics are a new kind of mythology (which, no, myths explain stuff) in the States or abandoning (either outright abandonment or parody) the superhero dressing to tell more mundane-looking stories in comic form overseas.
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