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Author Topic: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)  (Read 7114 times)

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Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2011, 05:12:02 PM »
Just to be accurate, DC Comics says this is a relaunch, not a reboot:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-05-31-dc-comics-reinvents_n.htm
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2011/06/01/a-note-from-the-dc-comics-co-publishers-we-hate-secrets/

Strangely, on the one hand I don't see the appeal of a "#1" issue, but on the other hand, I hate the idea of not letting Action and Detective continue on with their numbering. Numbers aren't magical, but, apparently, numbers are magical.

I really don't want to write off DC because they are trying something, and maybe with a digital platform they can get new readers with free preview/downloads on other sites, etc.

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2011, 05:12:02 PM »

Offline narfstar

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2011, 07:21:22 PM »
My view seems to mirror yours John. Throw the baby out with the bathwater it's done drowned anyway. Does DC have the marketing rights to the Icon characters? If not that would be a reason not to use them. I would like to see DC have some distinct era imprints. JSA, Sgt Rock, Haunted Tank, etc set in the 1940's. Then have the JLA characters as the mainstays of today but more true to their original selves as they evolved into the seventies but not too much beyond when things got different. I would not mind seeing the Quality characters integrated with the JSA. The Charlton characters should be on their own earth and be in on an annual convergence that allows them to crossover with the JLA. Fawcett and MLJ characters could be on their own earth and crossover with the JSA annually. Then the other character imprint for later introduced characters. I would really like to see the Charlton and MLJ characters returned to more than being in name only.

Offline John C

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2011, 07:58:31 AM »
Sorry, Narf, signals got crossed.  My fault.  When I said "diversity among the icons," I meant that the JLA looks like the same bunch of white kids they were back when a non-white character was hard to pass through the CCA.  That's distinct from Milestone (with the character Icon), which they own lock, stock, and barrel, but nobody has ever heard of the characters.

What stops Hal Jordan or Barry Allen from being black, for example?  There's nothing particularly "white" about them, whatever that may mean.  Other ethnicities would be more difficult if keeping the classic identities, since there are very few Korean or Brazilian Arthur Curries, but if that's an acceptable loss, or if marketing thinks that "mixed" parentage is acceptable to the readers, why not go for it?  Take a stand and stop coasting on Tony Isabella creating Black Lightning decades ago or replacing the "real icon" with a minority that one time.

On the other side, there's the cross-company integration.  What I mean is that it's tiring to see the Quality characters lumped together as the Freedom Fighters over and over again (and Fawcett characters exiled to a city nobody visits, and Charlton characters ignored, and...you get the idea) when a few of them have much better publishing records than Green Arrow, the Martian Manhunter, Black Canary, and a few other "important" JLAers.

Seriously, if you're going to relaunch, why sit on characters who sold really well in the '40s?  The only reason I can come up with is that they're afraid to use anything in the public domain, but that'd be a really stupid policy when the Superman copyright only has a couple more decades left...

(I don't want to get too detailed on this.  I have a half-finished project in this vein that may one day see the light of day, and have given this particular issue a lot of thought.  So past a certain point, I'd never be able to shut up.  As opposed to my usual laconic state...)

And Roy, I agree.  Numbering is generally nonsense, but for a title that could hit four digits in a few years, it's a little sad to say, "nah, we'll just start over."  I'm guessing that, in a few months (if not immediately), they'll do a dual-numbering thing like on Adventure.  Then, the marketing people are happy as are the history people.  Because no matter what they're doing in relaunch-land, those are numbers worth celebrating, no matter how shoddy the product might have been at times.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2011, 08:04:24 AM »
And Roy, I agree.  Numbering is generally nonsense, but for a title that could hit four digits in a few years, it's a little sad to say, "nah, we'll just start over."  I'm guessing that, in a few months (if not immediately), they'll do a dual-numbering thing like on Adventure.  Then, the marketing people are happy as are the history people.  Because no matter what they're doing in relaunch-land, those are numbers worth celebrating, no matter how shoddy the product might have been at times.

Maybe that's the magic part - it lasted 900 issues, bi-otches! I've never been a tradition for tradition's sake, but I think having that explicit indicator of history is important to keep.

Offline CharlieRock

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DC renumbering
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2011, 10:18:40 AM »
As of September DC announced it is going to renumber all (or at least 52) of their titles to #1 and reboot the universe. Pros and cons of reboots aside ... I liked that Action Comics and Detective Comics were around #900  :-[

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: DC renumbering
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2011, 10:21:12 AM »
As of September DC announced it is going to renumber all (or at least 52) of their titles to #1 and reboot the universe. Pros and cons of reboots aside ... I liked that Action Comics and Detective Comics were around #900  :-[

Oh, a sense of history which indicates at least some level of quality enough to survive for close to 100 years isn't important compared with  ... #1! Or is that sarcasm? Yes, it's sarcasm.

Offline Yoc

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 10:37:57 AM »
Charlie I merged your thread with John's existing one on the same topic.

-Yoc
'Good Housekeeping Monkey

Offline Yoc

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Gutters comments on DC relaunch
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 10:42:07 AM »
Pulled from a Yahoo group -
Quote
For those unfamiliar with the work, the-gutters.com posts one page comic-book format tongue-in-cheek commentaries on the current state of the comic book industry, as drawn by some of the current professionals in the industry.  Today's Captain Marvel/Superman episode comments on the next planned reboot of the DCU.

-Daniel

This is the first I've heard of Gutters but I plan to read more.

This about sums it all up - in a rather crude way.  
Suddenly I'm seeing Gaines on the stand "is this good taste?  For a web comic it's in good taste, yes.."

http://www.the-gutters.com/comic/145-scott-cohn

The episode about Spiderman's reboot in 'One Moment in Time' back in Aug 2010 is pretty funny too -
http://www.the-gutters.com/comic/31-paul-southworth

Offline John C

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2011, 07:26:03 AM »
New information is out, and it...looks like a mixed bag, honestly, in every interpretation of that phrase:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/10/those-52-issue-one-solicitations-in-full/

First off, whoever designed Supergirl's costume needs to have a sit-down with Jim Lee, because he managed to take all the crappy details of the Superman redesign and turn it into something that doesn't look like it was drawn during middle school study hall.  I mean, the bare thighs (and knees) are awkward, and I blush a bit seeing the pentagon in the nether-regions, but it's otherwise a nice-looking outline.  On the other hand, another article I saw showed the George Perez Superman which...actually manages to look worse than the Jim Lee version.  Sheesh.

Second, it looks like there's indeed a reboot, based on the various references to a sudden growing presence of superbeings, a few "old" characters who appear to be completely new, and the smattering of Wildstorm.

On the other hand, a lot of other titles reek of tangled continuity, like four human Green Lanterns in various positions throughout the Corps and Batman Incorporated.

Things that strike me as particularly good moves include an Aquaman who's not an Atlantean king (though I'd prefer it retroactive), a Wonder Woman whose role is to protect us from the gods, a showcase book (DCU Presents), scrapping and restarting Hawkman as something more modern, and the first time I've ever seen a Black Canary story sound interesting.  That's not to mention making some actual use of the Milestone, Charlton, and Quality IP in the forms of Static, Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, and the Blackhawks.

The Legion books also sound surprisingly interesting.  And breaking down the walls of the Vertigo Ghetto is nice, too, even if it does sound like it's spawning another "team of grumpy loners" book.

The bad includes Batman overload (eleven titles?  That's more than a fifth of them!) with what seems to be maintaining the very tangled continuity they wanted to avoid, the conspicuous retention of outdated and boring characters like Nightwing, Deathstroke, and (ugh) Harley Quinn (note:  All Batman-franchise characters, no less), a lot of anti-heroes and criminal heroes (Green Arrow, Grifter, the Titans, Red Lanterns), and a little too heavy a reliance on "fan favorite" writers.  I don't begrudge anybody enjoying Grant Morrison, Tony Bedard, or Gail Simone, but I don't think any of them has mainstream the appeal DC needs.

Given the lack of JSA/Marvel Family presence (with the exception of Mr. Terrific), I'm guessing the Golden Age has been exiled to a new Earth-2, which has its good points and bad.

Overall, though, it looks like it's not the terrible effort I was expecting.  As I said, I would've liked to see some more diversity among the "big guns" (no, Cyborg doesn't count), both in terms of ethnicity and company origins, but it still looks like a better starting point than Crisis or Zero Hour left the readers with.

Offline OtherEric

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2011, 11:56:10 AM »
The more I hear, the more I have to respect what DC is trying to do here.  While I don't know that they have the right plan to save comics, they're quite clearly approaching this on an organized, across the board, all-in level.  I've heard they're planning TV ads as part of their promotional drive on this, for example.  And although it hasn't gotten much attention yet, same-day digital across the board is a good idea, or at least better than trickling out random books.  As part of that, while I don't personally like the restarting of Action and Detective, I will concede it's something that makes sense to show that this is a full-blown starting point. 

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2011, 01:34:32 PM »
The more I hear, the more I have to respect what DC is trying to do here.  While I don't know that they have the right plan to save comics, they're quite clearly approaching this on an organized, across the board, all-in level.  I've heard they're planning TV ads as part of their promotional drive on this, for example.  And although it hasn't gotten much attention yet, same-day digital across the board is a good idea, or at least better than trickling out random books.  As part of that, while I don't personally like the restarting of Action and Detective, I will concede it's something that makes sense to show that this is a full-blown starting point. 


So, is this turning people on or off? From DC Comics, that is.

It might be a good point to jump in ...

Offline John C

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2011, 03:12:51 PM »
Don't know, Roy, but I can tell you that this is the first time I'm looking at a comic book company and it resembling a business, rather than a treehouse or money-laundering scheme.

While a lot of what they're doing is definitely not what I would've liked to see, I think it's got a better chance to catch on--even with embedded fans, once they get used to it--than anything else they've done.

I think my big fear, at this point, is that 2012 will see the start of a bunch of rewrites of old stories to bring back all the story elements lost in the transition.  There's nothing sadder than another five issues asking Who the #$%^ Donna Troy Is This Time? or introducing Supergirl (I know, bad example) to the DCU for the fiftieth time.

Offline OtherEric

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2011, 03:38:54 PM »
Well said, John.  We'll see how it works, as is I'm grabbing about 15 of the books to start.  But 10 of those are tentative depending on how the first 2/3 issues go.

Offline Yoc

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2011, 06:28:35 PM »
Here's a funny blog parody of the DC relaunch - Marvel Style.
http://www.againwiththecomics.com/2011/06/marvel-to-relaunch-entire-line-publish.html

It made me laugh a few times.
-Yoc

Offline boox909

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Re: There's No Stopping Them Now...Again (DC's renumbering)
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2011, 09:54:40 PM »
Here's a funny blog parody of the DC relaunch - Marvel Style.
http://www.againwiththecomics.com/2011/06/marvel-to-relaunch-entire-line-publish.html

It made me laugh a few times.
-Yoc

As a guy that told his retailer to cancel all of the DC titles on my pull list due to their silly reboot, this is a riot Yoc!!!  :D :D :D
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