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Author Topic: CGC liability and Jerry Bail's All-Stars  (Read 1282 times)

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Offline Yoc

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CGC liability and Jerry Bail's All-Stars
« on: May 28, 2010, 03:42:48 PM »
Hi Gang,
Robert Beerbohm has been telling this story on Yahoo just lately.  (see HERE for originals)
It's a very sad story that frankly amazes me CGC would try and pull on someone.  Especially considering the value of the books involved.

Here's the story from Robert:

Hi Guys & Gals

I have been away from pretty much all my groups for several years now as I
wended my way towards getting repaired and healed.

These past months since finally getting surgery Oct 20 2009 have been cathartic
in "seeing" and "thinking" again.

Besides having begun doing researching work on my comics business history book,
one of my largest conundrums perplexing me currently, which laid dormant, while
I then dealt with disintegrating bone on bone mind-numbing pain now waning,
which I have been able to get back onto, is CGC damaged Jerry Bails' All Star #7
and #8, as well as made All Star #22 disappear for a couple years only to have
it re-appear without ever saying they had it all this time

CGC got two inch wide mailing tape on Jerry's All Star #7, damaged the bottom
staple area pull tearing at the staple to #8,

I tried to communicate on CGC's talking picture boards, but the message I tried
to convey there was drowned out by I guess those vested into CGC's fortunes.

Fully realizing there is cross-pollination amongst the plethora of lists, Was
wondering what some of you here who are more concerned with reading the books
and studying the art, and the creators behind said art, thought?

For me it is no longer about the monetary restitution CGC owes Mrs Bails for
books placed into my care, rather, honor and truth.

When the hip joints went bone on bone, I fell down mightily on the job doing
what I have done for over 40 years now, buying selling trading comic books and
related material inside comicons nationwide, full color tabloid paper catalogs,
a growing web site,

Getting back on one's feet sometimes is no mean feat, to coin a phrase in there

Once the brain seizures stopped with daily Dilantin doses, my brain began to
function again, coupled with the pain is mostly all gone

Isn't there supposed to be truth in advertising "guarantee" in one's business

What you guys think?

Robert Beerbohm

Followed with more details here:

Hello Friends,

Thanks for the welcome back to the group. I am recently getting back into a
number of my groups left on hiatus mode for some years now whilst I sought
repair and healing. Shortly after the surgeries, as well as being proscribed
Dilantin for the brain seizures I evidently had been living with some years due
directly to mid numbing pain, the pain was all gone, and I could think again as
in days of yore.

A little background.

Jerry passed away right before Thanksgiving 2006. In Feb 2007 Ray Bottorff
contacted me to come to Detroit if I was interested in handling Jerry's comics &
art for the estate.

Not being an ambulance chaser type of guy, with my hip joints all gone to bone
on bone zero cartilage left by summer 2006,

as well as dealing with youngest daughter Rochelle just getting back from a four
year stint in the US Army (year in Afghanistan) with PTSD rendering her homeless
on the streets of Tucson, for which I flew down there in Feb 2007, got her
stuff, we drove it all back in a rented vehicle. Once we got up here, she
discovered she was pregnant, if fell on me to see her thru to delivery, grand
daughter Giana was born Oct 25.

I went to Detroit May 2007. We emptied out Ray's basement of the boxes of comics
Jerry had placed with Ray on consignment back in the late 1990s,

then drove over to the Bails' house wherein I was shown the JSA comics and art
Jerry had left. He had left All Star 3-32 34 35 37-57 plus art out of JLA 21,
Showcase 55 56, Flash 137 amongst others. Where Jerry's AS #3 33 36 got off to
prior to me getting there is another story.

The comics and art I began scanning and taking digital pics of, placing them
into a CGC thread called Jerry's All Stars. CGC's thread boards allow for words
and pictures to interact in the same message, so it seemed a natural at the time
considering the "heavy hitters" of the comics world inhabit their talking

I also was scanning and placing into the same thread all sorts of Jerry's comics
research material he and Jean had made up over the years to teach the CGCers
there who Jerry was inside comics fandom.

I sold Jerry's remaining art for $130,000 all to one fellow in June 2007. Wire
draft came in, sat in my bank acct for all of four hours, and then wired on Jean
Bails' portion same day.

The "experts" interacting in this CGC thread were all pressuring me that the
smartest thing to do was to have them all "certified" for proper resale

I responded by flying them down inside a large jeweler's brief case taken with
me inside the plane, hand delivering Jerry's All Star comic books at CGC HQ in
Sarasota Florida. Steve Borock, Mark Haspell, West Stephens met with me in an
outer office conference room, us poring thru the comics, them noting Mile High,
Lamont Larson pedigree potentials on some of them, stuff like like.

No further communication until Borock hand delivers them to me later that summer
at San Diego late Wednesday afternoon right before Preview Night opening, a
hectic time prepping one's booth space for the hoards waiting outside to come in

Borock at that time informs me that a CGC employee in their receiving room had
accidently opened a box of some one else's incoming books, a long 3 foot swath
of mailing tape flying off from said box onto All Star #7, Jerry's books having
been de-mylared and sitting in a stack right next to said box.

Borock described then he came running over, as said employee was trying to peel
the tape off the #7 cover, and Steve grabbed a blade, cutting off the excess

After hearing this tale, I then flipped thru the box of slabs, quickly noting
Jerry's All Star #8, first Wonder Woman, was in a Purple Kiss of Death

I asked him what the haps was on this book. He replied it had a dab of glue and
a touch of color added. I felt a tinge of shock as that concept had eluded me
prior. Since I was going to the "grading pros", I had not done restoration
checks on the books, which is easily accomplished with a $4 black light bulb for
99% of that sort of stuff. At that point Borock went back to the CGC booth

Matt Nelson just happened to be in the crowd flow coming in front of my booth a
few minutes later. I asked him if he knew how to take glue off a comic book, he
said "yes," and Matt then popped the slab, opening it very carefully.

As he opened the front cover, the first thing he and I both noticed was one
could see "light" from a newly emerged hole at the bottom staple which was not
there before I delivered the books to CGC HQ.

One can easily see some one had forced opened the book, tearing inside cover
paper off, leaving it on the glue which had been placed right at the spine, not
easily seen prior.

I attempted to discuss this matter with Borock, he pretty much blew me off, we
all got swept into the people chaos of 150,000 attendees swarming thru the
Comicon for the rest of the week.

As summer 2007 progressed, CGC pretty much stone walled me

Then I began my descent into pain induced hell which lasted thru 2007, all of
2008, up until Oct 20 2009 when I finally was blessed with repair replacement
surgery out in LA at St Vincent's Medical Center at their Joint Replacement
Institute. Healing began

My ability to think again also began coming back, and I began to pick up the
pieces of my shattered life. One of the first things I began to tackle was these
unresolved issues re All Star #7 and #8, knowing that a lot of time had elapsed.
I had not been much good for anything for anybody up until getting repaired and
these seizures finally properly diagnosed.

As owner of the books, I asked Jean Bails to also contact CGC, which she did.
Her email back to me circa Oct 2009 had "Stone Walled" in the subject header.

They also informed Jean at this point CGC had forgotten to bring All Star #22 to
San Diego earlier, it had been sitting in their HQ all this time, and they then
returned said issue.

I had originally not checked off the inventory list 100% at San Diego 2007, my
falling down on that job attributable to the brain seizures brought on by the
intense pain I was living with for a couple years up to that point.

The All Star #8 is the big dog in this passion play. If the book had not been
forced open the way it had been done creating a pull tear, it is utterly
conceivable the glue could have been removed safely, thereby increasing it's
perceived value, bringing in more money for Jerry's widow Jean.

Now, it will forever have interior cover paper pulled off, leaving the paper
where that happened very thin. This is a shame and a tragedy.

I am all for negotiating a fair restitution compensation price, however, they
deny doing that to the All Star #8, them not talking at all as if ignoring me
will make this go away.

As far as court goes, Florida Law has a one year statute of limitations, which
passed June 2008, when I was out of it on so many levels. I finally took this to
CGC's talking boards, started a thread there, got attacked by some who appear to
be heavily vested in CGC's future growth and success.

Tis time to nudge this high end comics market "under water" like the false
housing mortgage market. Maybe 20 rich collectors are fueling the record super
prices we are seeing of late. Tulip-Mania.

I have been asked if it be OK to place this info into one's blogs, etc and I
say, "yes" as Court of Public Opinion is what I have to work inside. I did not
do this to Jerry's All Star 7 and 8. This is no longer about the money. I want
my hobby back.

Robert Beerbohm

All of this was bad enough but then Edward Bebee pointed out the following:

>Isn't there supposed to be truth in advertising "guarantee" in one's business

I would think so. But their website says otherwise:

Basically, they only guarantee the quality of the grading process. They
expressly claim they're not responsible for damage under any circumstances.

Oddly, their FAQ makes note that the comics, while in their care, are insured
against damage. Which creates the impression that any damage will result in
compensation otherwise why mention the comics are insured?

And as you point out, having "guarantee" in their name is misleading.

Unfortunately, I can't see this resulting in much without a lawyer or a lot of
publicity to shame them into action.

For the short term, I'd recommend asking anyone with a blog, twitter account or
any other media channel to start talking about this.

--> e

So the bottom line certainly appears to be 'buyer beware when using CGC!
Another reason to hate them from my point of view.


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CGC liability and Jerry Bail's All-Stars
« on: May 28, 2010, 03:42:48 PM »

Offline GeneYas

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Re: CGC liability and Jerry Bail's All-Stars
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2010, 02:00:55 PM »
The last time I looked, the CGC didn't guarantee anything. They didn't guarantee the grade. The took no responsibility for damages. You are basically paying them for an opinion.