General Category > Comic Related Discussion
Holyoke is a Myth...
Henry Andrews (fox_centaur):
--- Quote from: JVJ on April 08, 2010, 08:10:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: narfstar on April 08, 2010, 07:38:40 PM ---Thanks Jim nice and concise. I do not think anyone wants to split Speed out of Harvey. What I would like to do when I have the time is tag the end of each file name. Should all but Holyoke be tagged as Tem-xxxx?
--- End quote ---
But really, narf,
It's not about what "people" want, it's about what's historically accurate. Again, I cite the example of Blue Beetle. Let's do what's right and "people" will figure it out. Honest.
--- End quote ---
This is why I've been advocating a system that allows for multiple classifications over at the GCD. We define the facts (who published from what office, who owned, who purchased what from whom, who distributed, under what logos, etc.) and draw associations that let people look things up in different ways. So you can look for books that are strictly Harvey books, or you can include those books that are associated with Harvey (due to a series of title purchases, for example). And that would bring in books that are strictly classified somewhere else. You could even add associations like "falsely linked to" so that people could *find* what they expect (like Narrative, Aviation Press or the Carnahan publishers) while making it clear that there is no real connection (except an art director or a packaging studio, perhaps). Others have been advocating similar things so I'm hoping that over the course of the next year we'll be able to implement it, or at least start.
Henry Andrews (fox_centaur):
BTW, I don't think this has been covered already, but does anyone disagree with me that Captain Aero's numbering (v1#7 in the indicia for the first issue) continued from Green Hornet, which ended with #6? The commonly propagated theory for Captain Aero is that it continued Samson's numbering, which I think is just more fallout from the Holyoke myth. The first Captain Aero issue was from Helnit, not Holyoke, and Holyoke did not acquire Blue Beetle until several months later. Blue Beetle #10 was the same month as Captain Aero #1 and the last fox issue (#11) was two months later. I can't think of any reason that a Helnit title would continue the numbering of a Fox title. Especially when there's a canceled Helnit title with exactly the right number available. Someone just conflated Holyoke and Fox and grabbed a six-issue series that ended at more-or-less the right time (half a year before Fox called it quits!)
The Harvey (Family Comics, Inc.) Green Hornet started half a year later. Whether it managed to also get the mailing permit somehow (Goodman apparently managed that with Comedy and Daring) or whether they just started with #7 to avoid confusion among readers, I don't know. But I don't think that Harvey's series, from several months later, is reason to assume that Helnit didn't recycle those numbers for Captain Aero.
JVJ (RIP):
I just changed "my" Helnit listings for Green Hornet to Bob's Green Hornet Pub. Co. based on my apparently erroneously belief that HE had more and better info than I. I've changed them back to Helnit(?) until we get confirmation one way or the other.
I agree that it's best to record what is there and, peripherally, indicate real or possible connections. How is the multiple connectivity search mechanism accessible in GCD? Or is it in the planning stages?
Yes, of course Capt. Aero came from Green Hornet, just as Cat-Man came from Crash. I thought that was self-evident. I mean, at the time of Captain Aero #1, no one even knew that Harvey was going to exist, let alone take up the numbering sequencing of Green Hornet.
Revisit the pdf link as I've added Crash #5, too, which for some reason I omitted in the first version.
(|:{>
Henry Andrews (fox_centaur):
--- Quote from: JVJ on April 09, 2010, 04:59:24 PM ---I just changed "my" Helnit listings for Green Hornet to Bob's Green Hornet Pub. Co. based on my apparently erroneously belief that HE had more and better info than I. I've changed them back to Helnit(?) until we get confirmation one way or the other.
--- End quote ---
Bob might have something- we'll see what he says :-) But the GCD record has it as Helnit for #1 and Green Hornet Pub. Co. for #2-6, so he might have just used that. I'm as skeptical of that as I am of any other Temerson/Carnahan/Holyoke data that hasn't been gone over either in the thread on gcd-main earlier this year or in this thread :-)
--- Quote from: JVJ on April 09, 2010, 04:59:24 PM ---I agree that it's best to record what is there and, peripherally, indicate real or possible connections. How is the multiple connectivity search mechanism accessible in GCD? Or is it in the planning stages?
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Planning stages. However, my talk at WonderCon last weekend may have netted us a search developer so I'm hoping he decides to indeed join the project and work on our long-awaited search overhaul. There's also some back-end database work to be done to support this, which is high on my personal list of priorities. But a few other GCD priorities come first (like it would be nice to be able to delete things- that's kind of a glaring omission right now).
--- Quote from: JVJ on April 09, 2010, 04:59:24 PM ---Yes, of course Capt. Aero came from Green Hornet, just as Cat-Man came from Crash. I thought that was self-evident. I mean, at the time of Captain Aero #1, no one even knew that Harvey was going to exist, let alone take up the numbering sequencing of Green Hornet.
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Well, yeah, I thought so, but I see that wacky Samson theory in so many places. As I've gotten deeper in the research side of comics it's been interesting to see what's entrenched in peoples' minds, and what's just been repeated more because no one thought to question it than because anyone really thought it was true.
--- Quote from: JVJ on April 09, 2010, 04:59:24 PM ---Revisit the pdf link as I've added Crash #5, too, which for some reason I omitted in the first version.
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Thanks, will do!
-henry
JVJ (RIP):
--- Quote from: fox_centaur on April 09, 2010, 02:20:31 PM ---Captain Fearless #2, 9/1942, is pub@Meriden, Conn. (and 2nd class pending) by Helnit Publishing Co., Inc. Editorial 381 Fourth Avenue, New York City.
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Didn't you mean 9/1941, Henry?
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