- +

Author Topic: Holyoke is a Myth...  (Read 13013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Karma: 1
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2010, 06:35:38 PM »
My ongoing analysis of the Temerson/Holyoke history is at
http://dccomicsartists.com/temerson/temerson.htm
Bert Whitman does the five issues of Crash, Whirlwind and the Helnit Green Hornet before leaving to do the Mr. Ex comic strip.

Speed is produced by a different group of people headed by Maurice Rosenfield, Ulmer's nephew.
So, it's really an Ulmer comic, not a Temerson comic.

I apologize accidentally for misrepresenting this earlier in the thread!  Although I thing you mean Ullman, not Ulmer :-)  This groups Brookwood as one fork descending from Ultem (I.W. Ullman + Frank Z. Temerson) with Tem and Nita, then Helnit, the other fork.  It also explains why "Brookwood" doesn't have a name made up from any of Temerson's favorite syllables (anyone know the derivation of "hel" and "nit"?), which Temerson obviously favored up until Continental.

Trying to figure out when Rae Herman left Temerson right now.  Not much to work with.

Between Oct. 1943 and Oct. 1945 is all I know from statements of ownership scans.  Anyone spotted a 1944 statement?  The other thing to look at would, I guess, be when she took over Wanted / Orbit / Our, although maybe there was overlap.  Definitely not an area in which I've had time to do any serious investigation.

Random bit of trivia- The Hood (who appeared in Cat-Man) had a girlfriend named "Rachel Herman".

Digital Comic Museum

Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2010, 06:35:38 PM »

Offline aussie500

  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 123
  • Karma: 58
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2010, 06:53:29 PM »
And while who ever is in there fixing "Holyoke" to be one of the actual Temerson companies... can we fix the name in the small press section that currently says "Continental"?  Key and Lucky comics are from Consolidated Magazines (Rubinstein), not Continental Magazines (Temerson).

Just my 2-cent carry-over from GAC. ;-)

Sorry about the mix up in the small publisher section, I never set up a Continental section so had not noticed it.

Offline JVJ

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 57
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2010, 09:19:23 PM »
A couple of questions, Bob.
Quote
Personal Adventure Stories

ed. J. A. Rosefeld (Resolute Publications Inc., 25, 68pp, large pulp, cover by A. E. Drake) -3 issues?

J.A. Rosenfield is I. W. Ullman's brother-in-law

Is "ed. J. A. Rosefeld" a (sic) or a typo for "J. A. Rosenfeld"?

Quote
"Lex Publications," 381 Fourth Avenue, which superseded "Ultem" and "Resolute Publications", is in its turn out.

What does "is in its turn out." mean?

Quote
Holyoke (Sherman Bowles) takes over Catman with #12(7) and Captain Aero with #8. Quinlan and Temerson go with them.

What does "Temerson go(es) with them." mean?

Quote
Champ takes over publishing of Champ Comics with #12.

225 West 57th ST Leo Greenwald ed and publisher

Adolphe Barreux's Majestic Studios supplies the contents.

Every issue of Champ I own (from #3 onward) seems to be produced by Barreaux (not Barreux), so I don't understand this entry for #12.

The path Rae Hermann takes from Temerson seems to be through Chicago - Rural Home (Patches, Taffy) and Swappers Quarterly (Toytown). Then with issues #2, to individual owners Taffy (1945 by Samuel Herman), Patches (1945 by Ray R. Hermann), Toytown (1945 by B. Antin) - ALL at 439 DeSoto in St. Louis, MO. With the THIRD issues of each, the mists clear away and it becomes clearly a unified, new company. The inside front covers list FOUR titles: Taffy, Patches, Toytown and U.S. No. 1 (never published). Art and Editorial is all at 1819 Broadway, NYC and Toytown #3 and Patches #3 both sport a logo proclaiming "An ORBIT Publication". The dates are all probably (I don't own Toytown #3) July 1946 and the Editor and Owner eventually turn out to be Ray R. Hermann.

Keep on researching...

(|:{>
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Karma: 1
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2010, 09:24:10 PM »
Slightly off topic I know but I have often wondered what the connection between St.John and Dynamic/Harry A Chesler was as some early ST.John books reprinted material from that publisher/shop.

-Nigel

Flying Cadet Publications, Inc., was also related to St. John and (in addition to the Flying Cadet series) published the main Chesler ("World's Greatest Comics") titles from 1/1945 - 1/1946.  The company was listed as co-owner of the series at the time, and the editor was Will Harr (for some reason, people seem to want to assume Chesler edited all of his own series, while in truth he often had a separate editor).  Do you know if the material reprinted from St. John came from Dynamic Comics #13-17, Punch Comics #12-16 or Red Seal Comics #14-15?  Those were the Flying Cadet issues.

thanks,
-henry

Offline Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Karma: 1
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 09:40:34 PM »
A couple of questions, Bob.
I'm not Bob, but I can answer some of these :-)  One easy one is that Rosenfield is often misspelled Rosenfeld in various places, but the former is correct.  This has been discussed quite a bit on gcd-main recently.

Quote
Holyoke (Sherman Bowles) takes over Catman with #12(7) and Captain Aero with #8. Quinlan and Temerson go with them.

What does "Temerson go(es) with them." mean?

Quinlan and Temerson continue to produce Cat-Man and Captain Aero under Holyoke.  This is definitely visible with Quinlan's contributions.  I can't lay hands on direct evidence for Temerson, although Bob might have something

Quote
Champ takes over publishing of Champ Comics with #12.

225 West 57th ST Leo Greenwald ed and publisher

Adolphe Barreux's Majestic Studios supplies the contents.

Every issue of Champ I own (from #3 onward) seems to be produced by Barreaux (not Barreux), so I don't understand this entry for #12.

Which part specifically are you contesting?  When Bob and I (and others) discussed this last time on gcd-main, I managed to get a copy of Champ #12 which, as noted by Bob is from the "Champ Publishing Company", 225 West 57th St.  It features a statement of ownership dated October 1940 listing the publisher as "Worth Publishing Co., Inc.", 122 East 42nd St., but listing Leo Greenwald as Editor (and no Managing Editor).  This is the transition phase- earlier indicia from Worth Publishing specifically list Worth B. Carnahan as editor (Champion #4, for instance).  As for the source, Quinlan seems not to have been involved here, while he is all over Cyclone (Bilbara) and O.K. Comics (Hit).

The path Rae Hermann takes from Temerson seems to be through Chicago - Rural Home (Patches, Taffy) and Swappers Quarterly (Toytown). Then with issues #2, to individual owners Taffy (1945 by Samuel Herman), Patches (1945 by Ray R. Hermann), Toytown (1945 by B. Antin) - ALL at 439 DeSoto in St. Louis, MO. With the THIRD issues of each, the mists clear away and it becomes clearly a unified, new company. The inside front covers list FOUR titles: Taffy, Patches, Toytown and U.S. No. 1 (never published). Art and Editorial is all at 1819 Broadway, NYC and Toytown #3 and Patches #3 both sport a logo proclaiming "An ORBIT Publication". The dates are all probably (I don't own Toytown #3) July 1946 and the Editor and Owner eventually turn out to be Ray R. Hermann.

Thanks for this!
-henry

Offline Bob Hughes

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 70
  • Karma: 0
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2010, 10:03:22 PM »
What does "Temerson go(es) with them." mean?

Quinlan and Temerson continue to produce Cat-Man and Captain Aero under Holyoke.  This is definitely visible with Quinlan's contributions.  I can't lay hands on direct evidence for Temerson, although Bob might have something
 (how do I do quotes in this system?)

There's a letter from Allen Ulmer (not Ullman-not a relative, but a Blue Beetle artist) talking about Temerson being at Holyoke and maybe part owner.  It's around here somewhere's.  Should nail down a copy so it won't float away.

Barreaux may be producing material for Champion/Champ earlier than I thought.  It's hard to pin shops down.
I will investigate further.

Greenwald may be a front for the printer or the distributor, keeping the titles in production until a new sucker can be found to buy them (Harvey).  Other than that, I don't "know" anything about him.  All this stuff I read about a connection between Temerson and Donenfeld appears to be total hot air. The only documented connection I've found is that they sued each other. Rosefeld is what it said in my source. (Uncovered by Douglas Ellis). A lot of these people changed the spelling of their names frequently.

Offline bchat

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 184
  • Karma: 21
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2010, 10:50:54 PM »

There's a letter from Allen Ulmer (not Ullman-not a relative, but a Blue Beetle artist) talking about Temerson being at Holyoke and maybe part owner.  It's around here somewhere's.  Should nail down a copy so it won't float away.

Is this what you're referring to:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_kZwgYcSrHR8/S71hOWZ2ntI/AAAAAAAABYc/DtrfM6lRgmo/s800/letter%20from%20allen%20ullmer.jpg

 (how do I do quotes in this system?)

Use the button that looks like a comic dialogue box, or type (without spaces) "[ quote ]" & "[ /quote ]" with the quoted text in-between the "quotes".
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 10:58:10 PM by bchat »

Offline Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Karma: 1
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2010, 11:00:13 PM »
(how do I do quotes in this system?)
There's a quote link at the top right of each post when you're logged in.  It will put that message in the edit box in quote tags.

There's a letter from Allen Ulmer (not Ullman-not a relative, but a Blue Beetle artist) talking about Temerson being at Holyoke and maybe part owner.  It's around here somewhere's.  Should nail down a copy so it won't float away.

Yes, that Ulmer I know, although I'd forgotten it directly connected Temerson and Holyoke.  Good to know.

Barreaux may be producing material for Champion/Champ earlier than I thought.  It's hard to pin shops down.
I will investigate further.

The GCD doesn't have any Quinlan credits in Champion.  Our indexes might just be sparse there, but we have plenty of credits for him in the other two Carnahan titles.  Champion seems to be different from Cyclone and O.K., somewhat like how Brookwood is different from Tem and Nita.  Don't know if there's any deeper meaning to that- was Greenwald (or whoever he represents) involved in those two earlier?  Was that why they went to him (assuming we can ever get evidence of Speed #12 and 13 being published by Greenwald in the form of "Speed Publishing Co.")?

Greenwald may be a front for the printer or the distributor, keeping the titles in production until a new sucker can be found to buy them (Harvey).  Other than that, I don't "know" anything about him.  All this stuff I read about a connection between Temerson and Donenfeld appears to be total hot air. The only documented connection I've found is that they sued each other. Rosefeld is what it said in my source. (Uncovered by Douglas Ellis). A lot of these people changed the spelling of their names frequently.

I seem to recall that someone on gcd-main (Steven Rowe, perhaps?) came up with a connection between Greenwald and P.D.C., the distributor.  But i don't recall what that connection was.

Offline JVJ

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 57
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2010, 11:04:56 PM »
I didn't ask about "feld" or "field" - the site lists "Rosefeld" (no N). It that a typo or does the indicia spell in without the "N"?

Quinlan certainly continues to produce Catman, but what evidence is there for Temerson's continued involvement? I've seen the Ulmer letter,
http://boards.collectors-society.com/attachments/90988.jpg
and my take on it is not that Ulmer is saying that Temerson is at Holyoke. Unless you know of another letter, I'm still very leery of placing Temerson the man at Holyoke the publisher.

You do quotes using left bracket, the word quote, right bracket. End the quote with the same adding the forward slash to before the word quote.

Regarding Barreaux, the entry on Bob's site for Champ #12 seems to imply that Barreaux wasn't involved earlier. I think he was probably involved from the beginning (or at least issue #3) so the entry seemed misplaced or at the very least misleading to me.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 11:06:58 PM by JVJ »
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48
  • Karma: 1
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2010, 11:21:04 PM »
I didn't ask about "feld" or "field" - the site lists "Rosefeld" (no N). It that a typo or does the indicia spell in without the "N"?
Sorry, missed that and had been reading the feld/field discussion recently so it was on my mind :-)

Quinlan certainly continues to produce Catman, but what evidence is there for Temerson's continued involvement? I've seen the Ulmer letter, and my take on it is not that Ulmer is saying that Temerson is at Holyoke. Unless you know of another letter, I'm still very leery of placing Temerson the man at Holyoke the publisher.

Reading over this one (it was posted while I was writing my previous reply) I agree that it doesn't make a case for Temerson involved in the titles at Holyoke.  He may have been, or he may have been shut out until he managed to get them back for Et-Es-Go.  The only clear thing is that editorially/creatively there is continuity.

thanks,
-henry

Offline JVJ

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 57
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2010, 11:27:59 PM »
There's a letter from Allen Ulmer (not Ullman-not a relative, but a Blue Beetle artist) talking about Temerson being at Holyoke and maybe part owner.  It's around here somewhere's.  Should nail down a copy so it won't float away.

Yes, that Ulmer I know, although I'd forgotten it directly connected Temerson and Holyoke.  Good to know.
I don't think this letter does that. It says that Holyoke (Bowles) "took over Temerson's company." I can't see there being a whole lot of "connection" going on there. It's like saying there was a direct connection between Germany and Belgium at the start of WW2. Well, yeah, but it sort of only went one way.

(|:{>
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline JVJ

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 57
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2010, 11:36:39 PM »
I didn't ask about "feld" or "field" - the site lists "Rosefeld" (no N). It that a typo or does the indicia spell in without the "N"?
Sorry, missed that and had been reading the feld/field discussion recently so it was on my mind :-)

Quinlan certainly continues to produce Catman, but what evidence is there for Temerson's continued involvement? I've seen the Ulmer letter, and my take on it is not that Ulmer is saying that Temerson is at Holyoke. Unless you know of another letter, I'm still very leery of placing Temerson the man at Holyoke the publisher.


Reading over this one (it was posted while I was writing my previous reply) I agree that it doesn't make a case for Temerson involved in the titles at Holyoke.  He may have been, or he may have been shut out until he managed to get them back for Et-Es-Go.  The only clear thing is that editorially/creatively there is continuity.

thanks,
-henry
Absolutely an editorial connection, Henry.
I've never doubted that. I try to be very careful with words when discussing this topic as it's been bandied about for decades with much misunderstanding and misinformation being given and taken as fact. So please understand that I'm just trying to be a stickler for the details when I question these things.

By the way, does anyone have a copy of Speed #s 12 or 13? And does either have an Ownership Statement?

And ps, does Rosefeld have the N or not?

pps.
Quote
"Lex Publications," 381 Fourth Avenue, which superseded "Ultem" and "Resolute Publications", is in its turn out.
What does "is in its turn out." mean?

(|:{>
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 12:15:57 AM by JVJ »
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline JVJ

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: 57
  • paix
    • ImageS Magazine
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2010, 12:33:09 AM »
Another overdue thank you:
In several prior posts on this topic I've mentioned a "differing opinion" on some connections. The opinions were those of my partner in comics researching crime for the last 40 years, Hames Ware (who is as equally as responsible as Jerry Bails for the original Who's Who of American Comic Books). His speculation, stimulation and mental agility have kept me on my toes and taught me so much over the years. He is very directly, probably even more so than Mark Carlson, responsible for my "knowledge" on this topic (and so very MANY others.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
Peace, Jim (|:{>

JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

Offline archiver_USA

  • Super Donor!
  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 40
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2010, 05:38:34 AM »
Sorry about the mix up in the small publisher section, I never set up a Continental section so had not noticed it.

Thanks for the quick fix!

Offline bchat

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 184
  • Karma: 21
Re: Holyoke is a Myth...
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2010, 07:19:44 AM »
By the way, does anyone have a copy of Speed #s 12 or 13? And does either have an Ownership Statement?

Speed Comics # 11 was published by Brookwood in "August" 1940 (possibly released in June or July, no earlier than May), issue # 12 was published by Speed Publishing Co in "March" 1941 (actual release may have been January or February, no earlier than December 1940), with # 13 following in "May".  It looks like the Statement of Ownership form was usually filed in October, but since nobody was publishing Speed Comics at that point, the Statement may not have been filed for 1940.