Zoot Comics 010

[Support Bot]

Comic Name: Zoot Comics 010 (23.48 MB)
Description: This one's for Len
Fan777 scans from the LOC Collection.

If you would like to learn how YOU could access and scan books from the Library of Congress read this topic on the DCM forum -
http://digitalcomicmuseum.com/forum/index.php/topic,4690.0.html
Uploaded by: fan777
Upload Date: 2013-06-26 18:07:48

https://digitalcomicmuseum.com/thumbnails/21144.jpg

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[eubiecat]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
This is a badly done scan. "Improvements" have been made which only call attention to the flaws of the printing process. THESE SHOULD BE ARCHIVAL SCANS--EXACT REPLICAS OF WHAT IS PLACED IN THE SCANNER BED! PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO "IMPROVE" THE SCANS. THIS IS WORSE THAN A MICROFICHE SCAN!
 

[builderboy]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
That is your opinion, eubiecat, one that you are welcome to keep to yourself. Your attitude demeans the efforts of the scanner, who had provided their time and resources to bring this to the community for free.  I, for one, greatly appreciate the offering, and am much more in keeping with fan777's opinions about what is preferable to view.  I don't expect you to agree with that position, but negative comments here are not needed.
 

[Fortress Keeper]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
If someone is willing to scan and post a rare comic for free, I'm grateful and say thank you.
 

[eubiecat]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
Scanners need to respect the historical document, and to present it in an accurate replica. This scanner has violated that principle repeatedly. Sorry if my opinion bothers you, but it's an essential part of what makes these scans worthwhile. Tampering with them renders them null and void, in my opinion.
 

[drsivana99]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
"Null and void?" That doesn't even make any sense.
 

[rangerhouse]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
Well if you have a problem with the scans,  buy the comic and scan and edit...   Thanks for the upload...  (demeans the efforts of the scanner) I couldn't agree more..
 

[SCOTT]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
Because these scans are free we downloaders are expected to make only positive comments about the scans. That is how the site is administered. I learned this a while back. They own the comics, they own the site and they will also control the comments. Criticism is most unwelcome, even when it there is obviously room for improvement, go figure!
 

[Yoc]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
I strongly disagree with that Scott.
Constructive criticism is fine as long as one remembers to treat others as you would like to be treated.
We depend on volunteers to scan and share their books.  Without them the site is a stagnant.  We certainly aren't going to reject this scan.
Personally I'm happy to see the book scanned but I also agree a scan is best when it's as close to the real object as possible.  Fan777 knows some don't like his changes but as he's the one finding the comic it's his prerogative on how to scan and edit them.  
As was said, if someone feels strong enough they are welcome to scan their copy and we will share both on the site.

-Yoc, admin
 

[fongool]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
Chalk me up in the "likes a natural looking facimile" column.

I appreciate the effort of the scanner in sharing this artifact with us, but at the very least I'd request posting both a natural AND an enhanced version if you're going to alter the scans to this degree. I'd much rather see artifacts preserved here as facimiles of the genuine article than see anyone's personal vision inflicted on them.

And while Eubiecats comments were a bit harsh, telling him to "keep them to himself" or "buy and scan your own book then" are pretty childish. I know if I posted this scan, I'd want to know how to make the next one better. Kissing butt just because it's free and attacking anyone with a dissenting opinion isn't helping anyone.
 

[rangerhouse]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
Thanks for the help and all the kind words.
 

[builderboy]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
This comment is addressed to Eubiecat, SCOTT, and fongool.  Perhaps my comment for Eubiecat to 'keep it to himself' was in reaction to his poor choice of words and location to make his pitch for the virtue of untouched scans.  That argument has been made here in the forums, fairly eloquently I might add, by others. It is not the position I personally hold, but I don't begrudge it in others.  What does get my goat is rudeness and presumption of some kind of rights that don't exist. Eubiecat, scanners don't "need to respect" anything. Scott, I don't "own this site" or "the comments", I am merely a contributer. Criticism can be worthwhile, but not always, depending on the merits of the comments and how they are delivered. Fongool, if by "kissing butt" you mean common courtesy (you clearly cannot tell the difference between the two), then yes...that is what is expected here.  I do hope the moderator strikes all of the comments here (as well as Eubiecat's inappropriate comments from fan777's other posts), as the contributer doesn't deserve it.  If you don't like a scan, don't download it. period.
 

[Yoc]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
As a member of staff I'm very reluctant to delete comments BBoy.  Eubie's (who I know is a good person passionate about the scans) message was very harsh.  He has a right to his opinion though I wish he'd put it less blunt.  I would suggest people remember to use the 'rate file' option.  If enough people gave this scan a 1 out of 10 it would become obvious that the majority don't like the edit done on it.  But currently the rating is over 7 out of 10.  Make you wonder doesn't it?
All scanners/editors are donating their time and money.  There are no hard rules for how a scan should be treated.  Even a crappy fiche scan is better than no scan at all.  Bottom line I'm glad Fan777 is trying to fill holes in our collection.  Do I wish they were more natural?  Yes, and I've even exchanged emails with him on the topic.  But it's his time and effort and we would be less a site without him.
 

[Morrismoss]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
I agree with you eubiecat, it's better to see these rare pages without edit or enhance because like in the archaeology or painting restoration field, when it has been done it can't be undone (such as what did the old lady in spain with the Jesus painting for example). Except that in that case, as Rangerhouse says, you, me, somebody else, eventually, one day can buy it, scan it again and share it a better way ... even if I really doubt it happens considering the rarity of these books. This forum of passionate people is not an official museum so you can't ask scanners to act as historian or museum searchers would do, simply because they are not. It's not a company, people are not paid for doing it and there is no rule here regarding the way to scan, so it's a matter of knowledge, education, taste, ego, quality of scaner, of screen, of vision, being color blind or not , having cataract trouble, you name it. People here are collectors who spend their time to scan it and give it to you for free. All you can do is hope that one day the "heavy enhancer" one will understand why it annoys you to see such rare and unknown popular culture, here, free at the world disposal and yet distorted the worst way. I understand your concern because like me, deep down you know that this forum is the only attempt that will ever exist to preserve these historical brooks and even if it's not done the best way possible, at least it is done (Alexandria library is lost forever). A drawing teacher I had once said to me 2 key sentences "better is always the enemy of good" "nice effect to do nice would do better if they were not here". Knowing that it could be improved with less (not more) time and effort, just by not doing anything, really make me grow a forest of exclamation mark up my head when I see this book here for example. In any case,  It's better to convince people than to bash them. As far as I'm concerned I'm grateful to be able to access all that and I use the rate option with sometime heavy hand.
 

[beanlynch]

Comment made at: Zoot Comics 010
These are pretty old comments but I'm going to chime in on them. I don't think everyone is looking for the same thing when they are looking at this website. I understand the desire of having this material unaltered for archival purposes. At the same time remember are looking at scans of printed comics, not of the original art. Most scanners aren't perfectly calibrated and almost no monitor is perfectly calibrated so we all see images differently. I think it would be a ridiculous argument to say that you're stuck with the pass of a scanner without adjustment no matter how flawed that scan might be. So then where does it stop? Some of these pages might brown, a lot of the color might be lost. Sometimes there are pen marks, crayon marks, or rips through the art. Some restoration to the images can be done to remove these in a way that looks natural. The question is where do you stop. Everyone is going to have a different opinion about this. Some people want to read and enjoy the comics with the best reproduction available (however a restoration isn't necessarily the best reproduction). I'd personally at the very least prefer to have the levels adjusted if the images are too dark. I would not pay $50 for a hardcover book of this material which contained poor reproductions. Some restorations can be made to enhance the quality pages without making changes to the art. Everyone's opinions might vary.

An appropriate way to address the issue with a DONATOR (keep that in mind) would be to make a request as opposed to a criticism. That request might be something like, "would it be possible to also post the unaltered scans? I like to view them for archival purposes." That way you're expressing your desire to see something without putting down something that someone put their time and effort into making available for all of us to enjoy.