Does anyone here read Japanese Manga?

[Lady Sky Skipper]

I read both American and Japanese comics and I was just wondering if anyone else did the same.

[narfstar]

I have read some manga. I enjoyed some Ranma. I found the problem with manga for me is that they drag things out far too long. Hundred of pages with very little story.

[JVJ (RIP)]

There wasn't any Manga in America in the "Golden Age", LSS, so most of us didn't experience it until VIZ comics in the 1980s. Rather late to the party, us.

Narf - did I ever tell you the story about Jean-Claude Mezieres? He's a French comic artist who was invited to lecture and teach at a seminar in Japan. One of his final exercises for his class was to tell a short little story (the student could pick the subject) in only three pages. Several of the more experiences Manga artists in the class simply COULDN'T do it! You're right, three pages was just not enough to tell a complete story about ANYTHING.

Still Manga is much better in Japan where it doesn't cost so much and 100 pages in both affordable and an easy way to kill about the same time as an issue of U.S. comic.

Welcome, Lady Sky Slipper

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[vaillant]

There wasn't any Manga in America in the "Golden Age", LSS, so most of us didn't experience it until VIZ comics in the 1980s. Rather late to the party, us.

Eh, JVJ, in Italy it has been even worse. Not only we have not had any US comic books of the golden age (very sporadic exceptions for Superman and Batman, pretty maimed and often retraced, mildly published from 1939 to 1947), but we have not had any actual japanese comic published with consistency until 1992.

In fact, having studied very, very little their historical production, I think it can safely be affirmed that – since in Japan they did not have a proper "golden age" because the modern conception of manga emerged slightly afterwards the war, more or less the late 1940s and 1950s productions, can be compared to relevant degree to the "golden age period" productions of other "comics-literate" countries.

E.g. there are interesting parallels between the early Tezuka production (late 1940s) and the early Tintin stories by Hergé (for France/Belgium), while war themes had been occasionally addressed in a large inter-war production (before "modern" manga) which is almost entirely known in the West.
A thing worth stressing is that the original Tetsuwan Atomu (Astro Boy) stories appeared in an antologic magazine (Shounen, which means "Boy"), in a very similar fashion to the one of many antological golden age comic-books, and the original version has a stile and quality pretty influenced by the classic syndicated strips (Mickey Mouse and the work of Geo McManus were favorites of Tezuka which had the opportunity to watch Mickey Mouse and other B/W shorts as a child).

I have purchased an anastatic reprint of the first six years of Atom stories (published in two colors) and they aren't the same thing of the redrawn versions which became "definitive" and were published by Dark Horse in recent years in english language. A pity I don't understand the dialogue, since I don't know japanese, because there are often also remarkable plot differences.

[narfstar]

Good one Jim and I can sure see that. I think a lot of current story arc writers would have the same problem. They could not write a single issue story, let alone three pages.

[kusunoki]

I like some of the old school stuff from Japan quite a lot. The last few years have been good for this in North America, with English translations of a lot of Tezuka's work and of Lone Wolf and Cub (quite possibly my favorite comic ever) coming out. A lot of great stuff is still only available in Japanese, though. It's a damn shame that non-Japanese readers can't enjoy the work of people like Ishinomori Shotaro.

[vaillant]

@Narfstar: In fact, in the early decade, characters were serialized in magazines like Shounen, with a limited amount of pages each, in a similar fashion to the features you have in american golden age books, with the only difference they were continuing episodes.
Also, the storytelling approach was for this reason quite more relaxed (I am speaking for Tezuka), than in the final versions he started to draw for the paperback reprints. In fact, there is a huge difference, and to reply to kusunoki I would venture to say this goes for most of the late 1940s, 1950s and 1960s productions.
Reading Ishinomori or Tezuka in the recent editions issued by Dark Horse & al. is slightly misleading, as a key ingredient, which is a lot of spontaneity and raw fantasy and sense of wonder came to be a little reduced in "polished" final versions.

To give you an idea, I attach the cover to an original Shounen supplement (from 1957), the only one from my own collection, whose story has been totally redone in the final versions (as in the Dark Horse complete edition). And the magazines were even more fascinating and attuned with that "golden age" (coinciding with the flourishing of comics towards the end, and immediately after, the war).

[vaillant]

Side-note: The story presented here is the second part of the "Yellow Horse" adventure, which is entitled "Duel on the [Japanese] Alps", and features the kidnapping of Atom parents by a gang of drug-smugglers. The scene depicted on the cover is the final showdown of Atom with the giant brain-robot which remains mostly unaltered in the final version (although the ending is pretty different).
One for all: in the original version Doctor Tenma has a prominent role (which highlight the complexity of his character, and his love for Astro in continuous conflict with his own mental instability).
Of course, I do not read japanese, but pictures are pretty revealing.

[narfstar]

Wonderful cover. How many pages would you say an original Astroboy story arc would have run during this time?

[paw broon]

The idea of a few pages of continuing story per issue was common in Europe as well as Japan.  Something JVJ and I sort of disagree on.
Back to manga.  I have tried some English translations as I can't read or speak Japanese.  JVJ mentioned Viz but my favourite, of the very few I enjoyed was published by Eclipse - Mai the Psychic Girl.  Very powerful stuff, I thought. The first few American issues of Lone Wolf and Cub caught my eye but palled after a while. I was hoping to cite other titles but they made such an impression that I have forgotten what they were.
However, I'm now curious about original Astro Boy and I like that cover.
It is a shame that more early manga has not been translated but, oddly, I noticed in one of the big bookshops in Glasgow a bookcase full of translated manga.  A lot of the books I opened were drawn in a style that I just did not like, perhaps do not understand and were about topics that do not interest me.  Before you say it, maybe I haven't delved enough. And throughout France and other European countries, there are comic shops with ever expanding manga sections.
As an aside, the argument about not enough Japanese comics being translated into English is also true for large quantities of French, Belgian, Italian, Spanish etc. comics and strips which are of a very high standard and are not translated into English. And in most cases, nary a superhero in sight.  For every Tintin, Asterix, Scorpion, there are umpteen marvellous books useless to those who read only English.
I've been desperately trying to remember the title of the huge hit Japanese comic that was made into an animated film, post-apocalyptic thingy, I think.  Anyway, when I had the shop, we couldn't keep it on the shelves it was so popular.  I tried it thinking, how could so many punters not be right. Did nothing for me.
Akira, that was it.
Thanks, kusunoki, I'll try to find examples of Shotaro's work.
Finally, that bit about telling a story in a few pages.  I refer you all to Ragman #3? wherein Kubert delivers an almost wordless story, beautifully done in a few pages and easily comparable to the the Hugo Pratt wordless segment in Les Celtiques, featuring Corto Maltese.  Pictures can be revealing.

[narfstar]

Cinebooks has been doing a variety of translations

[vaillant]

Wonderful cover. How many pages would you say an original Astroboy story arc would have run during this time?

Glad you appreciate it.
I do not have the original at hand, but the redone final version (available in english in the Astro Boy Dark Horse #13, title: "Shootout in the Alps") is 31 pages. Story length varied, also depending on whether the story run was originally on the magazine or on a supplement (as it's in this case). The first part of this story, for example, run on the magazine from october 1955 to february 1956 (it can be read in the Dark Horse Astro Boy #10, title: "Yellow Horse"), while the second part, this one, was sold as a supplement.
The supplement is pocket-size, in fact I was pretty surprised when I finally got it from Japan. I thought it was in comic-book size, as Shounen was more or less comic-book size (which made it also for a lot better readability).

As an aside, the argument about not enough Japanese comics being translated into English is also true for large quantities of French, Belgian, Italian, Spanish etc. comics and strips which are of a very high standard and are not translated into English.

Hi Paw, allow me to say that coming to the japanese case there is basically a radical difference, which is not related to the quantity/quality of the material, but to the time lapse.
In Italy we did not have manga until 1992 and I think Epic's Akira (1988?) was the first japanese comic with such a diffusion in the US, while – for example – italian comics have been (at least in one case) published in the USA in comic form ("Saturn against the Earth" on "Future Comics", but I think it's incomplete) as early as 1940, but you’re right in saying that USA have been generally reluctant to look outside their own production. Also, manga started to be massively published in english (and in italian) in late 1980s/early 1990s, but the stories presented were mostly, or only, 1980s and 1990s contemporary productions. Most of the 1940s up to the 1980s ("golden age" to "bronze age" loosely equivalents) of japanese comics is unpublished both in english and in european languages.

Cinebooks has been doing a variety of translations

Oh, great. Including Blake & Mortimer, I see. And Yoko Tsuno, too. Just great.
Well, that’s what I am speaking about: we do not have a japanese equivalent of this logic. The equation japanese comics = cool, for youngsters & hip people, and golden age/pre-war = old murky stuff still largely prevails. It’s totally uninformed, and very misleading.

[vaillant]

An example: this is an issue of Shounen with an installment of the story "Adventure on Mars" (unfortunately I do not own any Shounen issue, it's just a found image).
As I said, Shounen was more or less comic book size, so the artwork could be appreciated in full, in its wonderful two-color printing.
Look at the same story in the reworked, pocket size final edition, and you will see splash pages often omitted and a big penalization.
Imagine Mac Raboy's Captain Marvel Jr. printed in pocket-size… I make this example because Mac Raboy's art is detailed, but it fits to any work.

[Drahken]

I'm a huge reader of manga, despite the fact that I only discovered it less than 10 years ago, and only really got into it about 3~4 years ago. I currently have about 250 series that I've finished reading, about 700 that I'm currently reading, and about 120 that I've dropped.

Manga reading is really a very different experience from american comics. For one thing, manga is almost always tied to a single artist & author unless that person dies, in very sharp contrast to the way american comics change artists & authors with every freaking issue. (Additionally, it's extremely common for the author & artist to be the same person.) Another big difference is that manga doesn't have multi-title universes where all the comics by a given publisher take place in the same universe & interact with each other. Unless a mangaka (manga artist/author) specifically creates some kind of spinoff series or sister series to interact with one of his existing series, or multiple mangakas get together for an intentional one-off crossover, manga series remain self-contained. (Which means none of that money-mongering nonsense that marvel is so fond of, that of forcing you to buy 30 issues each, of 10 different titles each, of 20 different characters, just to get a single story.)

Another major difference is that most manga series are actually pretty short (especially compared to american comics), at around 25~50 chapters, and have an actual conclusion. Imagine spiderman or superman having 50 issues & then stopping.
In contrast to that however, there are a fair number of manga that just drag on & on endlessly. Bleach and naruto are 2 prime examples.
The bottom line here is that if manga seems to drag on & on to you, don't blame manga in general, blame the specific manga you're reading.
There are actually a large number of one-shot manga, which are no more than a single chapter in length. Beyond that, there are a lot of manga which are only 1 volume (typically 5-6 chapters) in length.

[bminor]

Not if I can help it! 
I am more of a classic American comic book buy.
There is way to much already here on DCM for me to read!
Plus, no jingle to put to yet ANOTHER comic to buy.

Though, way back when I was young I do have a vague memory about Astro Boy, sometime in the mid sixities. I was about seven or eight year old.

B.