CENTAUR and such...

[Guardian7]

I thought having a space on here to discuss Centaur stuff as a whole is a decent idea (instead of a bunch of little posts - nothing wrong with that mind you - FEEL FREE! LOL).
I have also been thinking of making a Website dedicated to CENTAUR COMICS (Centaur Publishing and Comics Magazine Company, Inc.).
Since this is the second Golden Age PD area I discovered I figured I would also post this here. As this site and the downloads that have only helped continue to fuel my interest in this long lost company.

I think I will start this off with a question of...

Where can I find the most concise history of the company itself?
Have one of the Posters here done something on that?
May I quote them? (I will acknowledge any and all who I quote and detail the source of the information).
I am not as UP on the "actual History" of the company as I probably should be. Doing this I aim to correct that.
If anyone can give me a heads up and a point in the right direction... I would be eternally grateful.

I am also looking for some missing characters and in some cases stories to fill the historical gaps of some of the Centaur Characters (many of which I now know - primarily because of this wonderful site).

Okay. Well this works for an intro.
There will be more you can be sure.

Cya guys!
G7 or Les (take your pick).

[Guardian7]

Okay. Here is more.

These are the Centaur Characters or Stories of Interest.

Images, back-stories or even scans of these would be appreciated.
If you can point me in the right direction that would be of just as much help.

Anyhow... here is I think the shortlist (Wait til I get to the Detectives, police and Agents!)
COMIC (plus v=volume #=Issue Number) - Character or Story.

AMAZ ADV FUNNIES #2 - Sand Hog (reprinted)

 DET EYE #2 - Don Rance and the Mysticape

MASKED MARVEL #1 - Gentlemen of Misfortune

MASKED MARVEL #2 - Kardo, the Monster Maker (reprinted)

MASKED MARVEL #2 - The Vampire (reprinted)

FUNNY PICTURE STORIES v1 1 - The Floating City (also appears in AMAZING MYSTERY FUNNIES v1 #4).

FANTOM #3 Zomba [hero gorilla?]

FUNNY PAGES v2 #5 - The Case of the Millionaire Playboy, Solved by The Master Mind.

FUNNY PAGES v4 #35 - Pluton the Great, the Earth Driller

COMIC PAGES v1 #2  - The Monster
Man

COMIC PAGES v1 #5 - Jay Douglas, in a Prehistoric World.
Jay Douglas also appears in reprint AMAZING MYSTERY FUNNIES v1 #4. It is also wholly possible the Jay Douglas stories that appeared in AMC may be broken up reprints.


COMIC PAGES v1 #6 - The Isle of Mystery

FUNNY PICTURE STORIES / COMIC PAGES v3 #4 - In Quest of the Zozosaurus

STAR COMICS v2 #7 - Jungle Queen

KEEN DETECTIVE FUNNIES v2 #4 - The Master Mind (Possible this is a reprint from FP v2#5)

AMAZING MYSTERY FUNNIES v2 #10 - Crime tracking Televisor

KEEN KOMICS v2 #1 - Bob Phantom (I assume this is a comedy thing... but you never know. The Clock didn't have a huge page count when it ran in Funny Pages).

KEEN KOMICS v2 #2 - The Forbidden Idol of Machu Picchu

MASKED MARVEL #2 - Kardo, the Monster Maker

Sorry if I replicated anything in the above list. just go with the flow people.
ANY and all help is appreciated.

Then hopefully I can get as definitive of a CENTAUR Web-site going as I can.

Thanks people!
Keep it Four Colors always!

G7/Les

[Roygbiv666]

Where can I find the most concise history of the company itself?

I stumbled across this site:
http://mysterymen.tripod.com/greats/centaur.htm

you might find useful (or not). Probably a good place to start, they list their references on http://mysterymen.tripod.com/good_guys/ref.html .

I'm not sure how much you'd need to Google to get to something good:
http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/?p=14642
http://muttermumblegrumblegripe.blogspot.com/2010/01/aka-centaur-comics.html

[Guardian7]

Wow.
The Richard Boucher Centaur History and the MODM article are pretty detailed.

The history reads like a jigsaw puzzle.

About how accurate are they?
How accurate could they possible be 65+ years later?
I would hate to put something in a historical section that was inaccurate (sorry... kinda weird that way! Heh!).

The First Comics News MEN OF MYSTERY 83 has an absolutely awesome (If not overtly Marvelized Cover).

http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/MOM83.gif

It looks like something that would have appeared if Marvel had indeed produced the CENTAUR Characters.
I am curious. I the Cover Artist to that Issue of MoM#83 the same guy that did the illustrations for the PC Game Freedom Force? Such as this one from the Image Comic.

http://i17.tinypic.com/6q1zvde.jpg

Anyhow Roygbiv666. Great stuff. If you think of more please let me know. As I am not always sure who might be (as before) accurate with the historical information.

Thanks

[Yoc]

Hi Les,
There were some thing talked about on GAC's forum that might interest you as well as some links.
http://tinyurl.com/24fomn7
http://tinyurl.com/2uk5x7y
http://tinyurl.com/2elh38w

You might have seen these already but if not they are worth a read.
-Yoc

[Guardian7]

Wow. Those are absolutely fascinating.
Great call on those YOC.

The discussion about Flying Models & Model Fun we rather intriguing.
Though I am sure I will be pretty heavily dependent upon the good graces and historical skills of others who have a bit more finesse in that area than I do.

My First primary of doing this sort of endeavor is to center on the Mystery Men (such as Amazing Man, Arrow, Fantom, Blue Lady etc.), Adventurers (like Reef Kindaid, Rocke Wayburn, Chuck Hardy, Jack Strand etc.), Detectives or Agents (like Agent Jack Rhodes, Dean Denton, Inner Circle, Etc.) and move my way down the list (Based purely on my tastes and what interests me). Unfortunately the humor strips are likely to be pushed clear to the back. Amusing mind you. But I am more interested in the heroic stuff.
I wish that Centaur had published a fictional War Comic (like a Sgt. Fury or some such - closest they have so far as I can tell is Duke Collins the Fearless Marine), As I have been finding myself oddly drawn to them or those kind of comics of late. I used to just brush them off as pure soldier fighting crap. But I have since seen some just amazingly well done stories involving regular Joe Soldier types (Well I dunno if there is TRULY anyone REGULAR in comics... but you get my drift I am sure).

I am also having fun with the Detectives and Policemen stuff. Such as the "Wings of Crime" story from DPS 1 with Sgt Lou Donovan and Detective Clem Bowers... It isn't the best laid out comic (as the same perspective is used throughout)... but for some odd reason the story and the characterization REALLY stands out for me. It has such a FORTIES feel to it (Yes I know how that sounds... it was the Forties! HEH!)

BUT... Still... the main focus will be the Mystery Men and Women... then the Adventures, Agents and Detectives.

Thanks.
Any help is as ever. Appreciated!

G7/Les

[Yoc]

Glad I could help Les.
Rik Offenberger has/had a Centaur/Mighty Protectors site via GeoCities that is currently down but a direct link in one of those GAC threads leads to the Centaur History texts he's found over the net.  I sent Rik an email telling him it was offline.
http://www.geocities.com/malibuprotectors/centaur.html

GL on the project!
-Yoc

[bchat]

The First Comics News MEN OF MYSTERY 83 has an absolutely awesome (If not overtly Marvelized) Cover.

It looks like something that would have appeared if Marvel had indeed produced the CENTAUR Characters.
I am curious. Is the Cover Artist to that Issue of MoM#83 the same guy that did the illustrations for the PC Game Freedom Force? Such as this one from the Image Comic.

Tom Scioli did the artwork on the Freedom Force comic.  He also does Godland and runs his own website (http://www.tomscioli.com/).  The artwork on MOM 83 definitely has a Kirby feel to it, but I don't know if Scioli is the artist.  You could always ask him (he has an e-mail address listed) and if it isn't him (there are a few other people that draw in the Kirby style), maybe he could tell you who did draw the Centaur cover.

I am also looking for some missing characters and in some cases stories to fill the historical gaps of some of the Centaur Characters (many of which I now know - primarily because of this wonderful site).

I would say your threads over at http://boards.collectors-society.com may help you get images of the stories you want.  That site has a nice group of serious Centaur collectors who seem like they, as a group, have every single comic that company produced.

[narfstar]

Bill Black the publisher is one of the best Kirby style artists. I can not make out the signature but it does not look like Black. It looks like he could have done the pencil with some else doing the inks.

[bchat]

While poking around the 'net looking for a larger image of Men of Mystery 83 to see the signature better, I noticed that Men of Mystery 81 has an Arrow story, while issue 82 has "Centaur Comics The BLUE LADY, in her debut story from Amazing Man Comics #25" (which is actually her 2nd story, as 24 is her 1st appearance).  Issue 80 has "THREE ultra-rare Centaur Comics stories from the 1930's- AIRSUB DX with "The Conqueror- Part !" (I assume they mean part "1") by Carl Burgos, DAN DENNIS, FBI in "Crime Does Not Pay", by Sam Gilman; and "THE CASE OF THE MISSING HEIR" by Bob Kane".

Just throwing this out there: http://hil-gle.com/hilside1.html.  If anyone was interested in seeing just how messed-up an article about "Centaur Comics" can get, start there.  I found myself going "WHAT?!" more than once.

[Guardian7]

Case of the Missing Heir is a real gem of a story to me.
In part because it is done by Bob Kane... but also because it is a decent story.
I actually colorized the main character and his girlfriend... I think the Butler too.

Yeah it really isn't hard if someone isn't doing the research or asking the right people to unintentionally screw up a historical aspect of that mystifying comics group.

Did you post anything for them to make the proper corrections to the article Bchat?
-------------------
Just so everyone knows... I love Kirby emulators... I see absolutely nothing wrong with admiring a style so much that your style becomes similar to the person you admire. Especially if it makes the artist feel good (and of course how could fans not appreciate it?).
-------------------
Yes my CSC post is bearing a little fruit. I am sure when time permits for some of the guys they were lend an even greater hand. They certainly have helped in showing posts or articles concerning the history. Which is pretty whirlwind at best.
-------------------
Rik Offenberger is a great artist. From the moment I saw his stuff on the cover of the first FF I knew I was going to like his stuff and designs. Very talented artist. The Comic aspect beginning of FF is a pure joy to watch.
I will have to check out his site when I get some time.

Again... and I know I say this a lot.
Thanks for all the help guys!

Les or G7...

[bchat]

Yeah it really isn't hard if someone isn't doing the research or asking the right people to unintentionally screw up a historical aspect of that mystifying comics group.

Did you post anything for them to make the proper corrections to the article Bchat?

Honestly, I don't feel it's worth the time trying to contact them to tell them how wrong everything they said regarding "Centaur Comics" is.  Placing Bob Kane as the head of Centaur when all he did was one story for Mahon & Cook before going-on to work for Wheeler-Nicolson shows me that they don't really care too much about being accurate in any way.  It seems likely to me that they repeatedly use Kane's name for "keyword" purposes, so that their site will show-up in results when people are searching Google & other search engines.

The problem I see with a lot of "The History of Centaur Comics" articles I've seen is that people are simply repeating what someone else has already written without doing any research of their own.  In the case of the Hillman site, they didn't even appear to do that, and instead just started making stuff up to suit their needs.  It's kind of pointless for me to try to correct them when they don't seem to care to begin with.

Just so everyone knows... I love Kirby emulators... I see absolutely nothing wrong with admiring a style so much that your style becomes similar to the person you admire. Especially if it makes the artist feel good (and of course how could fans not appreciate it?).

I don't think there's anything wrong with drawing in Kirby's style at all, as I'm sure most (if not all) artists start-out copying someone else's style before finding their own way of doing things.

[Guardian7]

Well that is said that they would simply drop Kane's name just for a "Keyword" or "Tag" just for Google or whatever search engine they are using.
There certainly are MORE artists worth "tagging" than Kane (and that is by no means any sort of insult - As stated previously I LOVE "Case of the Missing Heir" by Kane). But he only did one story by all my research... and that doesn't make him a strong contributor to Pre-Centaur or Centaur.

I still think you should send some sort of memo to them stating that maybe they should at least read this incredibly accurate article by Howard Keltner. Who as stated by others did a great service with this life long project..."

http://www.twomorrows.com/alterego/media/Golden%20Age%20Index.pdf

Well repeating what others say about the "The History of Centaur Comics" is not bad. Just so long as who they are quoting is accurate.

Not familiar with the Hillman site by simple name. But if they are continuing to mire and ink blot the "True" history of Centaur. Then that is a damn shame and likely VERY important historical aspects will be lost or caught behind the garbage they spew if indeed they are simply making stuff up to suit their needs. Plus... they should care. Someone at one time worked very hard on the stuff they are causing possible misdirection with... AGAIN... Damn shame!

---------------------------

I have a tendency to somewhat emulate Byrne and Perez. If I could completely emulate either of them I most certainly would. but as you say a person's own style starts to show through.

Kieth Giffin was a GORGEOUS Kirby emulator (at his career beginning). His Defenders (Marvel) issues are my ALL-TIME Favorites in that series run. Plus it didn't hurt that he had the ever talented Klaus Jansen on the inking helm! Just beautiful stuff!

Phil Jimenez is a perfect example of a Perez emulator who went one step further. I actually think that Phil renders faces better than George.

----------------------------

Well that is it for now.
Other than...

Still plugging away at working on the Centaur website and my Online Centaur Comic.

I am still working on an Intro to my Centaur Site and the History section is likely going to have to wait while I mire my way through the maze that IS the History of Centaur.

I have most of the Amazing Man profile done up with some nice word balloon/story box-less pics (Though I still haven't decided if I want to do a complete listing of all of his villains off his profile or do a separate "BRING ON THE BAD GUYS!" thing... which is standard).
Blue Lady's profile is close to complete. only because I felt Centaur needed a female representative and since she is Centaur's pretty much stand out alone Heroine that I should spotlight her first above others (NOTE: Super-Ann is basically costume-less and more stumbling across adventure and being less of an actual crime fighter).

The site will likely spotlight the characters I absolutely know first. Unfortunately with characters like Arrow, Fantom, Masked Marvel and a few obscure ones. I do not at this time have what I feel is enough accurate info to do a full profile (as I do with characters like Airman, Amazing Man, Blue Lady etc). Though they will get one and it will list the basics (Such as I do have Arrow #1 & #3 so I do know the character). I would just hate to miss something important that got lost in the shuffle of me not having certain stories. I do not have a lot of stories by them, so I would rather stay dry accurate then enthusiastically wrong.

I have all of the comics names listed and their dates. Though I doubt I am going to do a Cover section (as I can just refer them to GCD - for the record I do have all the covers on disk just in case a site like GCD folds - "doubtful!"). 

I have a decent Host site so that is good.

Plus likely when I get my Centaur Online Comic going I will probably make a duplicate site dedicated to the heroes in my features and the changes/alternations I have made or had to make to them. Which will be listed in Bold Lettering that I made said changes and that they are my own and not historically a part of the character (Such as the Protectors stuff from Malibu is) That way NO ONE in their right mind takes what is on that site as fact in relation to the ACTUAL history of whatever PD character I decide to use. Because unfortunately some modifications to stories are going to have to be done in order for it to make a bit of sense (Such as a less destroyed New York from the Shark feature or a retrofitting of the Amazing Man story where Pearl Harbor is destroyed - at the time of the story's writing... Japan wasn't our enemy... and even up until they surprise attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 7 1941).

All of that is of course something for an entirely different post. Which I should at least get a comic online before I start blatting about it.

So that's it for now.

Cya
G7/Les

[bchat]

I still think you should send some sort of memo to them stating that maybe they should at least read this incredibly accurate article by Howard Keltner. Who as stated by others did a great service with this life long project..."

I'ld be more interested in spending my time helping someone who wants to get it right, rather than waste time with people who simply don't care.

Well repeating what others say about the "The History of Centaur Comics" is not bad. Just so long as who they are quoting is accurate.

The problem is that people are quoting the same stories over and over.  They see something somewhere, write an article, that article gets quoted (or misquoted) on a website, which in turn gets quoted somewhere else and the whole thing spirals out-of-control without anyone along the way saying "this piece of information right here might not be right, maybe I should check this out".  For example, anytime I see the name "Fred Gardner" noted as being the owner or co-owner of Centaur, I know someone didn't do any homework at all and are just repeating what they read somewhere else.

Not familiar with the Hillman site by simple name. But if they are continuing to mire and ink blot the "True" history of Centaur. Then that is a damn shame and likely VERY important historical aspects will be lost or caught behind the garbage they spew if indeed they are simply making stuff up to suit their needs. Plus... they should care. Someone at one time worked very hard on the stuff they are causing possible misdirection with... AGAIN... Damn shame!

To be fair, I hit upon the Hillman site on (something like) page 20 of a Google search, so they're not popping-up right away when people are looking for info on the Centaur group of books.

I have a tendency to somewhat emulate Byrne and Perez. If I could completely emulate either of them I most certainly would. but as you say a person's own style starts to show through.

Kieth Giffin was a GORGEOUS Kirby emulator (at his career beginning). His Defenders (Marvel) issues are my ALL-TIME Favorites in that series run. Plus it didn't hurt that he had the ever talented Klaus Jansen on the inking helm! Just beautiful stuff!

Phil Jimenez is a perfect example of a Perez emulator who went one step further. I actually think that Phil renders faces better than George.

Giffen sprang to my mind when I was thinking of Kirby-like artists, although he's far removed from that style now.  Jimenez, Perez & Jose Garcia-Lopez all have a simlar enough style that I couldn't tell them apart with only a quick glance.

Still plugging away at working on the Centaur website and my Online Centaur Comic.

Looking forward to seeing both.

I am still working on an Intro to my Centaur Site and the History section is likely going to have to wait while I mire my way through the maze that IS the History of Centaur.

I'm sure someone out there knows more than I do, but if there are any questions you have that I could answer, I'ld be happy to help-out a little.

Blue Lady's profile is close to complete. only because I felt Centaur needed a female representative and since she is Centaur's pretty much stand out alone Heroine that I should spotlight her first above others (NOTE: Super-Ann is basically costume-less and more stumbling across adventure and being less of an actual crime fighter).

Don't forget "Jane, The Magician From Mars", the company's first superheroine, appearing in the early issues of Amazing-Man Comics 7-11.   Martin Filchock, Super-Ann's creator, seemed (to me at least) to be geared more towards light-hearted adventure.  Perhaps had he been able to continue working on Super-Ann for a few more months or another year, she would have progressed into more of a crime-fighting sidekick of Mighty Man.

I have all of the comics names listed and their dates. Though I doubt I am going to do a Cover section (as I can just refer them to GCD - for the record I do have all the covers on disk just in case a site like GCD folds - "doubtful!"). 

The GCD is ok for covers, but you could easily provide better images by using the Heritage auction site or grabbing pictures from eBay auctions, the Collector's Society's Centaur thread and DCM's files.  My thought is that if people are going to go to this site because it focuses on Centaur, they might want to see a decent cover gallery, too, without being directed away to another site.

[Guardian7]

I find Jane the Magician from Mars to be insanely erratic... and I have a hard time getting through it (I have mind you).
I don't consider her to be a deep part of the Heroic side of Mystery Men as I see her more as a Alternate Earth kind of... whatever she is... Sci-Fi chick. Aside from the fact that she is (X-MEN: Phoenix level) over powered.
She is my LEAST favorite Chara from the Centaur line and though I will do a profile on her (as I have her entire story run)... She is not high on my list for getting at. Super-Ann will appear before her and I'd likely put Dopey Day up before her. HEH!
I actually have to say Magician from Mars is probably in my opinion the worst series to appear in all of Centaur books.

The Iron Skull seems to bounce around from the future 50s back to the Forties. Which is odd... but I will do the best I can with him. He I think had THE BEST and most diverse villains.

Well... for some reason my Helvictia font has disappeared from my computer and I can't seem to read the Golden Age Index I have... dunno what happened to it... Odd that!

G7/Les