- +

Author Topic: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status  (Read 4573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline paw broon

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
  • Karma: 5
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2019, 10:57:46 AM »
This action and it's results, i.e. the books still available, does raise some interesting questions. We probably shouldn't go into them here right away.
Since DCM and CB+ went public with the situation, I've been in touch with a few other sites and none has received any communication from WB.  A couple of the sites are highly visible and a couple are those which have the most recent issues scanned and available. All the sites have complete or extensive runs of Fawcett comics.
It is good that WB have been civil in their dealings with both sites, and it is absolutely correct that they have the right to defend their copyright.  I also don't  think that the communications between the parties should be made public at this time.  Anyone wanting info. on "registration/numbers" etc. should be able to find it elsewhere.
As for the foreign reprints, it is interesting that many of the particularly Spanish language editions from S. America feature strips from a number of publishers.  I have anthology books featuring Fawcett characters, Marvelman (plus Young and Kid)(which are Miller characters and nowadays part of the ongoing Miracleman debacle) and Superman in the same issue.
I'm waiting for a reply from a friend who's a bit of a comics historian, if only to get his views on this.
Just adding that the Uderzo story is O.K. as Bravo bought rights to produce new stories. Pheeeeewwww"
It is rather sad, and I have to admit, depressing. But if all is correct, that's it.
By the way, I wonder if any action has been taken about the unlicensed Spanish "Robin Y El Murcielago" comics, or the French language Superman stories from the '50's.  There were runs of both titles.  I have to go into your and our files to see if the Uderzo issue has been removed.  Now that would be a shame.
Stephen Montgomery

Digital Comic Museum

Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2019, 10:57:46 AM »

Offline Captain DJ

  • Server Admin
  • Administrator
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
  • Karma: 13
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 11:30:05 AM »
I thought that copyrights apply only to financial or business use of copyrighted material and that they are freely available for non-profit hobby or educational use.  Also, how does Warners view buying and selling of old Fawcett comics? Are they now going to demand a share of a seller's profit from a comic book?

It all comes down to fair use.

Under certain circumstances, material can be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder. Even an school will still need to abide by copyright laws, a book can be photocopied fine as long as they don't exceed 10% of the book. A school might still have to hold a copyright license to allow this (depends on country law)

As for a hobby, as an artist you could make fan art of your favorite character fine but if you tried to sell this fan art on a t-shirt / poster you could end up in hot water if it still closely resembles the original character.

Disturbing a movie / comic etc as a hobby is still copyright infringement even if you don't make a profit. Under copyright law, it is illegal to download or share copyrighted materials such as music, comics or movies without the permission of the copyright owner. If this wasn't the case, file sharing music, movies, comics and games wouldn't be an issue and wouldn't be taken down. This defense has been used previously when the P2P programs were first under threat and the courts sided on the copyright holders.

As for selling / buying a physical comic book or a movie etc, once a copyright holder sells the copyrighted volume to a consumer, the copyright holder’s rights have been exhausted, and the consumer has the right to dispose of (not copy, but dispose of) the book any way he or she sees fit. If this didn't exist there would be no second hand market and this is why companies these days are pushing to digital versions of movies, books, games, comics because they retain the rights and you are restricted from selling the items so killing the second hand market. Most digital items these days are protected with Digital Rights Management (DRM) software.

PS. I'm not a lawyer so take all of the above with a pinch of salt and always do your own research

Offline sandmountainslim

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma: 0
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2019, 01:22:38 PM »
Fortunately I have already downloaded all the Captain Marvel Adventures and Captain Marvel Jr and have them on my hard drive for future reading. I really disagree with their decision because they are never going to reprint these books particularly the ones which feature Steamboat and this is the only way many people have of enjoying these great Golden Age stories

Offline crashryan

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 114
  • Karma: 3
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 07:36:48 PM »
It's pointless to discuss the fine points of copyright law, hobbies, and fair use, because in the present environment copyright law is whatever the biggest corporations with the most expensive lawyers say it is. Innovations like the astonishingly bad EU online content law, the concept of having material removed merely by claiming ownership real or imagined, putting public domain material back under copyright, and copyright terms that run into many times a person's lifetime, demonstrate that "rights" have little to do with what's fair or even legal (if the law gets in the way just pay for a new, favorable law). The overarching goal seems to be to convert every piece of "intellectual property" into a source of eternal rent. Nothing is ever "owned" by anyone but the conglomerate at the top. As I've said before regarding Mickey Mouse, what I'd like to see is fifty thousand creators all over the world simultaneously publish Captain Marvel books, posters, movies, and music. The system needs to be broken.

Offline Roygbiv666

  • Repeat Donor!
  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
  • Karma: 10
    • Standard Comics
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2019, 07:40:28 PM »
I thought that copyrights apply only to financial or business use of copyrighted material and that they are freely available for non-profit hobby or educational use.  Also, how does Warners view buying and selling of old Fawcett comics? Are they now going to demand a share of a seller's profit from a comic book?

No. Copyright is a legal right, existing in many countries, that grants the creator of an original work exclusive rights to determine whether, and under what conditions, this original work may be used by others. They can prohibit or allow whatever they want.

Offline Defiant1

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 2
  • Golden Age Fan
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2019, 08:11:29 PM »
It's pointless to discuss the fine points of copyright law, hobbies, and fair use, because in the present environment copyright law is whatever the biggest corporations with the most expensive lawyers say it is. Innovations like the astonishingly bad EU online content law, the concept of having material removed merely by claiming ownership real or imagined, putting public domain material back under copyright, and copyright terms that run into many times a person's lifetime, demonstrate that "rights" have little to do with what's fair or even legal (if the law gets in the way just pay for a new, favorable law). The overarching goal seems to be to convert every piece of "intellectual property" into a source of eternal rent. Nothing is ever "owned" by anyone but the conglomerate at the top. As I've said before regarding Mickey Mouse, what I'd like to see is fifty thousand creators all over the world simultaneously publish Captain Marvel books, posters, movies, and music. The system needs to be broken.

I agree with what you say except the point about it being pointless to discuss. The copyright system is broken and functionally useless. If cavemen had started it, musical notes would be copyrighted and we'd have to pay to use them. The heirs to the inventor of the wheel would be very rich. The inventors of every pigment would be rich. Everything we encounter is an accumulation of what someone before us did. At what point do people quit worrying about what they can get from others and start thinking about what they can give to others. If everyone gave to those around us instead of taking, we'd all be rich in the ways that really matter.

Offline larrytalbot

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 142
  • Karma: 12
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 02:09:32 AM »
Thanks for the info CapDJ, Roy, et al. Here's an imaginary problem for this board: suppose I own a Fawcett comic that's on Warners prohibited list. Since I own the hardcopy, I can do what I want with it. Right? I decide to scan and send it electronically to a friend (or maybe to several friends!). Further, my friend(s) reciprocate by sending me electronic copies of their own 'prohibited' Fawcett hardcopies. We've now established a PRIVATE electronic comics-trading circle. Are we breaking any copyright law?

By the way, I'm in the midst of scanning my own Fawcett 324-page Gift Comics #1(1942). The job is slow going because of the tight binding. When it's done, I'd like to send it here -- if that's acceptable.

Offline Captain DJ

  • Server Admin
  • Administrator
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
  • Karma: 13
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 04:55:29 AM »
Thanks for the info CapDJ, Roy, et al. Here's an imaginary problem for this board: suppose I own a Fawcett comic that's on Warners prohibited list. Since I own the hardcopy, I can do what I want with it. Right? I decide to scan and send it electronically to a friend (or maybe to several friends!). Further, my friend(s) reciprocate by sending me electronic copies of their own 'prohibited' Fawcett hardcopies. We've now established a PRIVATE electronic comics-trading circle. Are we breaking any copyright law?

In your imaginary situation, you own a hard copy so you can do what you want with ONLY the hard copy. If you make a copy of that book and pass it on, you would be breaking copyright law. Doesn't matter if it's private or public, it still infringing on their copyright and if found out you could face legal action.

If you owned the hard copy and wanted to preserve it, in case it got damaged, you could create a copy as long as it was for personal use and was not shared. Libraries and Museums do this with rare books/art and these copies are filed away and not for general public viewing normally, just archiving purposes.

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12905
  • Karma: 31
  • "Say cheese!"
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 07:19:50 AM »
By the way, I'm in the midst of scanning my own Fawcett 324-page Gift Comics #1(1942). The job is slow going because of the tight binding. When it's done, I'd like to send it here -- if that's acceptable.

Hi Larry,
We would love a share a scan of your Gift Comics #1 but we have to confirm what the contents are.  It's never been indexed on the GCD.  But if you could list the story titles to me we can use the GCD site to track down the details.  You can send me a Private Message or use the Contact Us link with the info and I will get back to you asap.

-Yoc

Offline SamH

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 02:08:47 PM »
Luckily there won't be a Kilroys movie anytime soon.

Offline blastaar

  • VIP Uploaders
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 83
  • Karma: 3
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 02:51:43 PM »
As a purely historical matter, I thought I would mention the original purpose of copyright—to give creators a temporary monopoly on their creations as an economic incentive to create, the ultimate goal being to enrich the cultural and intellectual life of society as a whole.  It was not to supply revenue streams to corporate entities or to assure the livelihoods of the creators’ descendants in perpetuity.  The limited term of copyright was essential to its purpose—once a creator had had an opportunity to economically benefit from what was created, the words, ideas, artworks, etc. were expected to circulate freely for the benefit of all.

With “benefit” eventually being re-defined as solely and entirely as “economic gain,” and the concept of “benefit of all” in danger of disappearing entirely, things are now . . . considerably different.

Offline Yoc

  • S T A F F
  • Administrators
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12905
  • Karma: 31
  • "Say cheese!"
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 03:51:27 PM »
Excellent points Blastaar!

Couldn't have put it better.

Offline tymime

  • DCM Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 1
  • Funny Animal nut
    • deviantArt account
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2019, 08:05:31 PM »
Ugh, I always meant to check out the original Captain Marvel at some point. Now I'm going to have to find out where I can find scans elsewhere- that's not going to be much fun.
SMILE DARN YA SMILE

Offline seary

  • VIP
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 1
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2019, 08:17:03 PM »
Something not yet discussed:
Along with the comic itself were the details on who wrote, drew and inked the stories, as well as a table of contents and brief descriptions of each story. Now that the comics are gone, these details are also all gone.

Any chance that this information could still be made available?

Also: huge thanks to those who did the scans as well as those that compiled all this information. T'would be a shame if ALL this effort disappeared!

Online OtherEric

  • Global Moderator
  • DCM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 759
  • Karma: 63
Re: NOTICE - Fawcett Comics changes due to copyright status
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2019, 09:20:23 PM »
tymime, we still have a LOT of Captain Marvel books on the site, including a paper scan of the very first appearance in Whiz Comics that was recently contributed to the site by Erik Larsen; over 200 issues total are left.

seary, the info on the books was all pulled from the Grand Comics Database; https://www.comics.org/ .  You can get the info there.

Our glass is still at least half full.