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Author Topic: How do you find credits?  (Read 3088 times)

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Offline John C

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 04:50:39 PM »
I never seem to have the time (perhaps the inclination--art isn't really my thing) to experiment, but I tend to think that...

  • You need to crawl before you can walk.  Yeah, it'd be great if new people could magically churn through unknown artists, but that's like expecting an engineer to create a new kind of transportation without ever learning how cars work.  Get a handle on what people already know, and it'll be easier to expand the field, just like any field.
  • Recognizing an artist's work at least can be largely a technical skill.  This may require consulting actual (pardon the unintentionally-implied insult) artists.  I don't know much about art education, but I do know that artists spend a lot of time copying the work of others, partly so they can recognize that work.  Composition, recurring motifs, line weights, etc., are all probably parts of the "profile," and probably wouldn't be faked across the board.
  • The next steps may well be even more interesting than just assigning names to projects.  In writing, part of establishing the credits, today, is often looking at influences, seeing the commonalities and direct connections.  To me, that's fascinating, and a field that's largely untapped.

A long time ago, I read an article about how the State Department recommended learning foreign languages quickly, and I think there's a good analogy here for an educational model that may be useful.  They used to suggest picking up a story or article and run through it, picking out all the words you think you know (using cognates as a starting point, essentially).  Then, iterate through, looking at what can be guessed by context and looking up words that can't be figured out.  Basically, when you can do it all on your own, across multiple articles, you understand the language.

If I were going to build the School for Art Identification, knowing full well that this is most emphatically not my field, I'd probably take a similar approach.  Pull out a story by a well-known artist, and pick out all the traits and tics.  Talk to others and see what they pick out that's different.  Then apply that to another story, and work to see if there's a contradiction, either the wrong artist (a standard example might be a Matt Baker ghost) or a feature of the artist's work that only appears sometimes.  And again, I'd definitely talk things over with art students, especially commercial art, where they'll have taken entire courses on line work and shading, and can see subtle differences in technique that someone like me can only sort of hand-wave.

When you can do it for a known artist, where there's verification and experts to discuss disagreements with, it'll be easier to tackle the less famous.

I mean, yeah, some people might have a natural eye for it in general or for certain artists, but I don't think the entire field is magic any more than it's pretty easy to figure out who wrote a post here without looking at the attribution or signatures.

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 04:50:39 PM »

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2013, 03:36:15 AM »
I think I have already done those, Narf. If you look up his entries in the WW, you'll find log entries that Hames and I made back in the '80s. And some of the GCD entries probably originated with my index cards.

Here's a pretty strong stylist just ripe for proving YOUR point. I say, go for it! Make those Key/Gilmore stories a topic on Art Spotters and see if a consensus about Finocchiaro can be reached. Find out if you can communicate to each other how to recognize him. That is, if there is anyone other than you and me who thinks Finocchiaro is worth knowing.

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Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2013, 03:53:04 AM »
John, I will only tell you the biggest problem I have with foreign language and art spotting: Memory. By the time I recall the French word I want to use, the conversation has proceeded to next week. When I look at a comic story I want to ID, I have to dredge up the name that goes with the style. I've yet to concoct a logical cross-reference system from style to name to style. It's a major drawback in both teaching and learning.

Suggestions from non- artistic types are both welcome and solicited.

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Offline John C

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 04:59:38 AM »
I absolutely agree, Jim, but that's also where we get back to putting in the work.  The reason so few of us are remotely good at this is because it means putting in hundreds of hours (at least) of exercising those parts of the brain, and to do that, it needs to be fun.  I think that's the "when you get it, you get it" angle, not the detection itself.

To shift this slightly, I tell students that the technical parts of programming are easy.  If you can give good directions to a restaurant ("if you see this landmark, you've gone too far"), you can write a decent program.  But to make it a career, you need to be willing to spend weeks at a time on tedious things...and eventually you'll need the social insight to know which restaurant people will enjoy.  Likewise, following a suspect from his house to work is easy.  Being a detective and doing that for a month, not so much.

And yes, the organization is also tricky.  It might, again, be worth talking to people who have actively studied art.  I can't imagine nobody has ever tried to solve this (or an analogous) problem.  Like I said earlier, I know in writing, the studies have shifted to influence--use of certain vocabulary and structure implies a certain age and education, and sometimes even a favorite author.  Here, it might be worth looking at who worked for who, what their training was, and so forth, to build those references into a more memorable structure.

Offline narfstar

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Re: How do you find credits?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2013, 05:54:01 AM »
As with most things, there is a degree of truth in each camp. There is no doubt that people are mentally hard wired differently. Why can some pick up any instrument all most naturally while others must learn it? Same with math. With hours of study most can learn it but others just get it from the get go.

Jim there are some Key comics not from your collection. A good place to add Eugene Hughes and Finocchiaro credits. I think I will make up Finocchiaro file for others to look at from the GCD and see if anyone wants to wade through the unindexed issues. I have a problem with things starting to look like....  Generally when I pick up a Key comic and see Eugene Hughes it jumps right out at me. So the first identification is pretty accurate. Then as I look through the book other not so sure stories start looking like maybes. It is not only with Hughes but almost any artist that I can identify. I do not know why my mind operates that way. So if I saturated myself with a particular artist then I start seeing them everywhere. It is a real bummer, but I am glad that I recognize that I have that weakness. Couple that with the frustration of a different inker and I am not a very effective art spotter  :(