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Author Topic: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons  (Read 3661 times)

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Offline Yoc

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2013, 04:31:26 PM »
Yes, there is at least one I've heard of - and a very pricey one even larger than that for architects.

The biggest stumbling block with today's digital comics you BUY is you don't OWN them!  You only rent them from Comixology, etc.  DCM doesn't play dirty like that thankfully but it's a big part of why I'm not interested in the site.

-Yoc

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2013, 04:31:26 PM »

Offline chaard

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2013, 03:52:15 AM »
@Yoc: For more than a few years now, major computer software firms have pushed a non-ownership subscription model. Keep paying your tithe, and you keep getting updates. The rental model, where nothing substantial is actually SOLD, has suffused through many media firms. By retaining ownership, a firm has great control over customers, and apparently can profit handsomely, especially if they don't have to fabricate and package and ship tangible objects. Downloading is cheap.

I expect the rent-don't-buy model to spread to producers of physical objects besides automobiles and phones and sat-TV dishes. Appliances, clothes, toys, tools, whatever. If it CAN be monetized, it will be. Miss a payment, and your medical implant can be repossessed. Yow.

Of course, such non-ownership models only encourage piracy, which in turn prompts corporations to pressure governments for more draconian enforcements, which require ubiquitous surveillance, and it's all downhill from here. One reason I don't own a smartphone: it's a surveillance and tracking device that can also be uses for games, reading, chats, etc. I like my privacy. I don't want to be tracked and eavesdropped and my media consumption monitored. Is this paranoid?

Offline Yoc

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2013, 10:31:27 AM »
All true C but I'm not signing up for it.  I don't own Any cellphone - smart or dumb.  For the reasons you state and the idea of being at someone's beck and call 24/7 is not cool.
Corporate control of our lives is a sickening fact that looks like it will only get worse.  Reminds me of Robocop a little.  As you say, it's obviously having an effect on the laws being written.  With the internet it seems 'assume guilt and prosecute.' 
:(

-Yoc
Luddite and proud of it

Offline narfstar

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2013, 06:20:08 PM »
Remember when TV used to be free. Now even local channels were required to go digital. What possible legal right did the government have to make such a requirement? You can make your own assumptions. You pretty much have to subscribe to a TV service now. I know someone who has not done so. His over the air signal frequently goes out and he immediately is bombarded with ads for services.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2013, 06:33:37 PM »
You can still use an antenna for digital TV, but I get your point.  :)


Remember when TV used to be free. Now even local channels were required to go digital. What possible legal right did the government have to make such a requirement? You can make your own assumptions. You pretty much have to subscribe to a TV service now. I know someone who has not done so. His over the air signal frequently goes out and he immediately is bombarded with ads for services.

Offline John C

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2013, 05:27:16 AM »
What possible legal right did the government have to make such a requirement? You can make your own assumptions.

Well, despite what the TV networks want us to believe, the government does control the spectrum on our behalf.  Going digital allows for better coverage in that the signal is all or nothing in better quality--no more fuzzy, vague signal that you can't understand--but at the expense of redrawing the coverage map.  It also allows for many more stations broadcast (free) on sub-channels, without allocating more spectrum.  And it allows us to allocate spectrum where it's being used, wireless and cellular--I don't/won't use a cellphone, but even I realize that it's better for the economy to let people communicate than watch "Gossip Girl."

Also, fingers crossed, the FCC is looking this year at stealing back some high-quality spectrum for unregulated use, which startups will love.

The big problem is the archaic auction system, for the most part, granting monopolies to enormous blocks of the spectrum to raise a few bucks and leaving the crumbs for the population.  When it cost millions of dollars to broadcast something, that made sense.  Today, when it costs less than a thousand and we have the ability to filter ("switch," as the WiFi people put it) between multiple users on the same frequency...?

Anyway...

After talking to many industry people over the years, there are two real-world pressures to push for "the cloud."

The first is that Microsoft and the PC manufacturers both did a wonderful job turning each other's products into a commodity.  Because Microsoft did a great job (despite the complaints we all have) with DOS and then Windows, nobody cares what computer we buy.  And because computer manufacturers have been so good at keeping to standards, we don't much care what software we buy, either.  Great for us, but it means that you can only compete on price, for the most part, in these industries.

And the upshot is that, when you buy a four hundred dollar laptop, you're buying something that cost very nearly four hundred dollars to manufacture and distribute.  Therefore, we have the marketing of "the Post-PC era."  You don't really want a full computer.  You want a phone.  No?  OK, a tablet.  No?  Would you believe glasses?  Because of the incompatibilities and lockdowns, the markup on those devices is much higher, as you can see with the prices on the nearly-identical Chinese knockoff tablets that cost nothing.

The second pressure is that selling software isn't the business it used to be.  When a new version of Microsoft Office came out, years ago, every office bought it, and about half the home computer users did, too, because it had useful new features.  There were also droves of new computer users every day, also driving sales.  Today, the old version is good enough, and LibreOffice is nearly so.  The same goes for any package, they're about as good as it's convenient to get them, and the Open Source packages are catching up; likewise, the PC market has come close to saturating, new sales being for kids with no money.  That makes for choppy, unpredictable, declining sales.

However, if you can convince everybody to view software as a service, you can charge a subscription and "make everybody happy," while making the revenue numbers entirely predictable and (with some vendor lock-in) foolproof.

I was told fifteen years ago (by friends there) that Microsoft was looking to shift everything to subscriptions for this reason.  It was phrased to me as "they'll roll it out as soon as marketing can explain it in a way that doesn't make the development team laugh at them."

Now there's the third pressure, though, which is that, if you're working off of a server, you're being monitored by that server.  It's a perfectly responsible thing to do, obviously, to make sure nobody breaks your expensive machines.  But since there's no real privacy law, and the analysis of that monitoring is an extremely valuable product, you have even more reason to push people onto "the cloud."

But don't panic too much.  The computer industry lurches back and forth like a drunk, usually in about fifteen year cycles, from what I can tell.  Today, we have the cloud.  In the mid-'90s, we had the push for "pervasive computing," the idea that your refrigerator, shoes, books, and mirrors would somehow have computers in them, communicating with each other.  Early '80s, we did all the real work through "thin clients," which implies an enormous server out there.  Before that?  Mainframes, where I should add, you paid to use based on the time you used it.  So it's not a new model.

Between those beats, though, you also see the trend of decentralization.  If you look at the advances in desktop computers, "fat clients," and privacy, they mostly happened right in the middle of the pushes for centralization.  So I suspect that, as Chaard mentioned, we'll see a lot of companies try to push to subscription models, but a lot of them'll fail in the face of competitors who say, "you own 100% of your computer/car/towel."

Then we can regroup in 2028 for the same conversation...

Offline Yoc

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2013, 09:10:46 AM »
Thanks for the reply John.  Always fun, if sometimes frightening, to read them!
:)

Offline Yoc

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »
Oh, you forgot to mention the debut of the Copyright Alert System (CAS) starting next week if reports are to be believed.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/copyright-propaganda-machine-gets-new-agent-your-isp

Be sure to thank big brother for his benevolent attention when you log off your computer.

-Yoc

Offline John C

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2013, 03:40:44 PM »
True, Yoc.  I've been keeping up, but figured it wasn't a law, per se, and also figured it was off-topic.  After all, it shouldn't be a serious hindrance to anybody who's excited about downloading public domain comic books.  It's just...icky.

It is offensive, though, and a note to your friendly neighborhood ISP telling them that you're willing to pay a premium to the company who doesn't become a mercenary police force for Hollywood wouldn't be a terribly bad idea, though, guys...

Privatized secret convictions and re-education classes.  I have to admit, Kafka would be proud.

Offline CharlieRock

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 11:38:08 AM »
Starbucks is going to be so screwed.
On the other hand, I now think I understand when foreign celebrities make headlines for saying the USA is a corrupt society (well, I can understand why they say it, not why it made headlines). I used to read those headlines and go "Wha?! You seemed to enjoy the USA when you were making money here." Them the USA goes and does something like this and I think "Oh, that is pretty corrupt, and i'm even looking at it from the inside."

P.S. Let's fore go the obvious corruption comparisons between governments and just say that  any corruption is more obvious when seen from outside the system.

Offline John C

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 01:04:12 PM »
Keep in mind, Charlie, that this is actually a result of the government getting it right.  This is what they were trying to roll out, last year, as "SOPA," the "Stop Online Piracy Act," a system of guilty-until-proven innocent where you pay to use arbitration.

Wait until next month, though.  Since the FCC has been saying it doesn't want to get involved in IP-based technologies and that they're not a common requirement, AT&T has been scoping out moving all its equipment to IP, thus squirming out from under the last of the regulation.  I'm sure they're doing it to bring better service at a better price and not planning to take, take, take...

One of my colleagues said the other day (in reference to stuff like this, not to mention patent abuse, which is a big deal at our office) that capitalism is a great system, and we really should try it out, some day.

Don't worry about Starbucks, though.  They'll force people to subscribe to morning coffee, sell your caffeine intake to your insurance company, and beg to be bailed out...

But what I was saying before wasn't really targeting them, but if I was CEO of a consumer store chain that relies on economies of scale (mass production and a homogenized audience) to turn a profit, I'd definitely be worried.  I mean, with the equipment that's available to hobbyists, we're almost at the point where you can easily privately manufacture a copy of a movie with or without the media, a computer (something on the level of the Raspberry Pi), an action figure for almost any 3D-animated character, a poster of almost any scene from any media, an e-book, a printed book, video games, or board games, for basically the price of materials, with no inventory.

The only limit is copyright harassment, and I almost wonder if that's going to be what drives people to openly-licensed (or public domain) content.  Another Star Wars movie might be more slickly done, but Chewbacca with Fast-Greying Action Fur(TM) is going to cost twice what Stardust or Sintel would.

And find me any toy company that would produce something like this:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:47622

Oh, and we can also do food, though Marko's website seems to be down.  Behold, the BurritoBot!

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670070/burritobot-a-3-d-printer-that-spits-out-burritos

Enclose it properly, and a shop might not even need to worry about the health inspector.

Offline CharlieRock

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 07:24:27 PM »
Patents have been abused for at least as long as Bell's time when he stole the patent ot the telephone. (and the idea)

Those places like Lulu or other Print-on-demand book clubs should get some business design going where they actually have a store you can walk into and then you're looking at the local comic book store to come.

Offline John C

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Re: Survey results - Digital vs Printed Comics - pros and cons
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2013, 05:01:59 AM »
My thinking has been more along the lines of the Internet Bookmobile more than Lulu, and a couple of big monitors to let people browse (minus some key pages, maybe) sort of socially.  Add the possibility of printing any back issues (and anything without a copyright).  Depending on the licensing costs (ideally, you'd work out something like the mechanical licenses that restaurants pay so that they can have any music playing), and you have something that can be dropped pretty much anywhere.