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Author Topic: Green Lantern  (Read 3276 times)

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Offline misappear

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Green Lantern
« on: June 02, 2012, 08:41:38 AM »
According to the news story I read on msnbc, James Robinson claims to have said, "why not make Alan Scott gay?"

Indeed.  Why not?  Better still, why?

A character that's been around for 72 years needs to have this "update" so DC can garner some press?  So that Robinson can generate a plot?  So that some marketing agenda can be fulfilled?  To use this pathetic ploy to attempt to create new readers from the LGBT community?

No!  It's because anyone who criticizes this decision will risk sounding like a homophobe!  How righteous.  Can't you hear it coming?  (well statistically, one out of ten......yadda yadda yadda).

I'm writing Webster.  They need to include "Why not make Alan Scott gay? As part of the definition of pandering. 

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Green Lantern
« on: June 02, 2012, 08:41:38 AM »

Offline sandmountainslim

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 09:36:56 AM »
Alan Scott hasn't been himself for 60 years anyway.
I so WISH DC would let all the Golden Age characters go into the public domain or at least sell them to another company.

Offline John C

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 10:04:10 AM »
Personally, I don't think they aimed high enough.  Alan Scott is (though one of my favorite characters) a bit player on a non-mainstream stage.  That's hardly the "iconic" character DC promised to deliver.

Understand that I think Robinson's a crappy writer who wouldn't know heroism if someone saved him from a burning building and left the arsonist tied up outside the police precinct, but he also has a point:  Why not?  People are gay, and sometimes even married people realize (or decide, or whatever) that they are.  If it's not written as a punishment for the character and if the character isn't satirical, it's the same as revealing that he's Jewish, a Trekkie, or a socialist.

That's where the homophobia accusation comes from:  Asking why it has to happen implies that it damages the character or it's a handicap of some sort.  Sorry, no.  It's worse than a handicap, because people are happy with a wheel-chaired Barbara Gordon or a blind Matt Murdock.

(It's also worth pointing out--and I realize this undercuts the "revelation" aspect, which is unfortunate, because it could be a good story--that this is a reboot, and therefore a new character, unsaddled with decades of continuity.  Anybody worried that Alan Scott is "being molested," as Alex Ross allegedly said about Obsidian, is overlooking that they haven't said a thing about "your" version of the character.)

As to why?  The same reason Clark Kent is traditionally a nebbish who wears glasses:  Comics are generally something for society's fringes to look at and say, OK, maybe this isn't something wrong with me.  In the Superman case, it's that maybe my being bookish and meek doesn't prevent me from going out into the world to change things for the better.  In this case, it's that being gay doesn't mean a life in the closet, limp-wrist jokes, and people calling you the devil until you commit suicide or win a Tony Award.

What I find offensive about this (and not being gay, I may not have the proper perspective, here) is that it's such a minor character (hardly a role-model for closeted readers to identify with or something to convince homophobes that maybe--just maybe--they're being petty), it's so late in the game to be worth bothering at that level (for both comics and gay people), and you're right, it's structured so that criticism (probably even mine) is guaranteed to be viewed as homophobia, even if the character is portrayed as a horrible stereotype.

I'm also more than a bit put off by the "principle" Robinson apparently used that, since Obsidian was gay, and Alan is too young to have kids, well, "the gay" must go somewhere.  Idiot.

Personally, I would have gone for Hal Jordan.  You know, the Green Lantern that people saw in the movies and stars in two of DC's flagship titles.  That would be a step worth taking (and be far better than the fiasco of John Stewart bumping Hal out of the book, thirty or so years back), whereas this reeks of cowardice, both in its action ("we need to do something so people think we're relevant") and its inaction.

Offline John C

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2012, 10:22:02 AM »

Offline misappear

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2012, 10:42:05 AM »
I'm still trying to process my anger at this.........

It's like hearing a lie, or experiencing a personal betrayal.  DC/Robinson is using a gimmick to generate sales and press.  I know, companies do it all the time.  There's no ethics here.  There's no high road. There's no "we're going to be the voice of an oppressed and compromised minority.". It's just blatant pandering. It's using that minority for their own financial gain. 

It's disrespectful.  It's.......


(sorry folks, this one really wound me up)

Offline bcholmes

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2012, 11:24:30 AM »
It's disrespectful.  It's.......

(sorry folks, this one really wound me up)

My view is that, while DC is pretty much dead to me, I support their efforts to re-imagine their characters as more diverse than they happen to have been in the past.  I don't view this as a gimmick. 

I confess that I don't think that DC has done a great job of this -- I pretty much agree with the fans who are pissed about Oracle, and I think that the way DC has reimagined most of their female characters is, well... "unfortunate" is too mild a word.  But I'll give them kudos for trying to make a statement that queer characters belong in the DC universe.

Further, I would encourage you to interrogate why this has made you so angry.  Why do you believe that there are no ethics at play?  Why do you think that retconning Alan Scott as gay is "pandering"?  When DC created all of these characters as white folk in WWII, do you not think that that's a decision that was for "financial gain"?

BC
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"In school, all the other kids laughed at me because I was just a brain in a jar."

Offline John C

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2012, 12:04:09 PM »
Oh, hey, look.  Article and preview:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/green-lantern-comes-out-as-gay-in-earth-two-20120601

Eh.  The costume is revolting.  The kiss is hardly classless, though it'd probably be pushing the boundaries to introduce even a heterosexual couple that way.  And the final emphasis on the word "magical" sounds horrid to my ear, the equivalent of a black character calling something "fly."

I still think it's a dirty move to call him prominent, but it's not nearly as badly-handled as I was expecting.  It's nothing I'd call pandering, personally, though mileage may obviously vary.

Unrelated, I don't see why all this meant getting rid of Obsidian.  There's no reason he needs to be any specific person's kid, especially considering his previous background.

Offline bcholmes

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2012, 12:43:43 PM »
The kiss is hardly classless, though it'd probably be pushing the boundaries to introduce even a heterosexual couple that way.  And the final emphasis on the word "magical" sounds horrid to my ear, the equivalent of a black character calling something "fly."

*nod*

I think it definitely reads like someone non-gay is writing gay characters.  I think some of what they're trying to negotiate is the long history of introducing gay characters who are never shown to be in relationships -- it's such a trope in so many types of media that I can grok that they're trying to break out of the well-worn patterns.  Which is certainly not to say that I think it's great writing. 

Quote
I still think it's a dirty move to call him prominent, but it's not nearly as badly-handled as I was expecting.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, here. 

BCing you
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"In school, all the other kids laughed at me because I was just a brain in a jar."

Offline misappear

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2012, 01:03:15 PM »
BC,

As I said, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.  Based on sales figures, the bump that DC enjoyed is now over, and sales have reverted to pre-whatever they call it. 

It's just a cynical opinion, but I don't believe that this plot twist with Alan Scott is Nything more than a marketing stunt.  Having read the first three months of the post-whatever they call it, I speak from personal opinion that these guys couldn't write their way out of a paper bag.  They just don't get story telling for anyone other than inbred junkies. 

Based on the lack of quality of the whole super-hero line, I personally believe that the company is simply exploiting the controversial nature of homosexuality to attempt to sell copies.  I personally believe they don't have a socially conscious bone in their collective corpus.

Offline John C

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2012, 02:23:25 PM »
I think some of what they're trying to negotiate is the long history of introducing gay characters who are never shown to be in relationships -- it's such a trope in so many types of media that I can grok that they're trying to break out of the well-worn patterns.  Which is certainly not to say that I think it's great writing. 

That's absolutely their point.  And I agree that it is nice to see them (from what little we see) as neither creepily frigid and sterile or embarrassingly sexual.  I just wanted to point out that the "magical" bit felt like someone really wanted to write "fabulous" and got kicked in the shins by one of the Queer Eye guys.

It's definitely a result of the writer asking himself, "what would a gay guy say?" instead of just imagining his own significant other coming to him with the same plan.

Based on the lack of quality of the whole super-hero line, I personally believe that the company is simply exploiting the controversial nature of homosexuality to attempt to sell copies.  I personally believe they don't have a socially conscious bone in their collective corpus.

To be fair, even in the likely event this is the case, it's more up-to-date than not having gay characters.  If one gay kid picks up the book and decides, despite the mediocre writing and art, that he has a chance to succeed in life, they deserve a pat on the back, even if they only wanted a few extra bucks for the donut budget.

Offline misappear

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2012, 02:41:38 PM »
John,

That's exactly my point.  DC is exploiting "gayness" strctly to sell copies.  The corollary benefit that you suggest doesn't exonerate DC from staging the repugnant "big reveal.". Had the character been written and developed as gay without the fanfare and attendant hoopla, there might be a reason to not view the whole thing as the disgusting stunt that it is. 

It's a wonder they didn't give out a list of say, ten characters, and have the inbreds vote on who was going to be the gay character. 

No, i'm sorry, but I can't get lemonade out of this lemon.

Offline John C

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2012, 02:54:51 PM »
In fairness to them, I don't believe it's a "reveal."  My understanding from the Rolling Stone article is that it's just the situation, and these two pages are the first we're seeing of him.

What I really want to know is who green-lit the announcement.  For something this lame, it doesn't look like it'd be to DC's benefit.  As you point out, it'd be much better press to just roll it out and let the readers make a big deal over it after the fact, with collectors scrambling to catch up.  In fact, the best business they could do would be to keep it quiet and do a short first print run, making it the first real collectable on the market in decades.

And Warner--with all the caveats that it's this Green Lantern and not that, and it's a different Earth, and Hal Jordan still loves the ladies--must be seething at the news, knowing that there are parts of the country where they'll never sell another Green Lantern DVD or action figure and the movie sequel will flop.

I hadn't given it much thought before, but if this was crass marketing, it's a terrible move.  It might spark some curiosity, but not surely not enough to compensate the mothership, and not nearly as much as if it had been done quietly.

Offline misappear

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2012, 03:08:55 PM »
Is my memory faulty here, or didn't the Northstar "outing" go initially unheralded?

Offline bcholmes

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2012, 04:04:43 PM »
Is my memory faulty here, or didn't the Northstar "outing" go initially unheralded?

In the original Alpha Flight series, Byrne made oblique references that, if you're looking carefully, suggested that Northstar was gay.  So, to some extent, that was unheralded, but also only existed at the level of subtext.  When he finally "came out", it was a Big Thing (but also astonishingly badly written), and ultimately Marvel felt like they got too much bad publicity from it.  Marvel explicitly avoided any "controversial" storylines for years afterward. 

BCing you
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Offline misappear

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Re: Green Lantern
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2012, 04:20:38 PM »
I hadn't actually thought about the fall-out. 

In my state we have a douche, uh sorry, elected official named Bob Morris, who after doing an internet search, decided that the Girl Scouts of America is a front organization for Planned Parenthood.  So, of course Indiana being what it is, he won the primary here a short time ago. 

Now just imagine the exquisitely forward thinking members of our society who, upon learning that we permit graphic novels in our school library, that we will be labeled as pushing the "homosexual agenda.". You can almost see the people Goose-stepping their way to us on the horizon. 

Regarding the Northstar thing, did Lord God Byrne actually write those stories or was he the pencil for hire?