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Author Topic: Universe Wreckers  (Read 3352 times)

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Offline KevinP

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Universe Wreckers
« on: June 15, 2011, 09:42:14 PM »
Just curious ... Is anyone else as bored as I am that just about every super hero team book from JLA to Avengers is about saving the universe, the timestream or reality itself?  Not only in the big summer crossover events, but routinely?  The first arc in the current AVENGERS was about the timestream coming undone, then the very next one was about an artifact that controls reality. This makes a great plot if used sparingly.  I think the first one i read was the first Kronos story in GREEN LANTERN, and it was an awesome idea.  But it destroys all suspension of disbelief when saving the whole entire universe is just another day on the job.
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Universe Wreckers
« on: June 15, 2011, 09:42:14 PM »

Offline Yoc

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 10:12:57 PM »
I agree and I'm not even reading them.
Personally I enjoyed the smaller character development stories.
I recall 'filler' books like the Avengers one where Beast and WonderMan were featured.

Offline KevinP

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 10:20:02 PM »
That's why the only DCs I read (until the September restart) are Batgirl annd Zatanna.  I like AVENGERS ACADEMY at Marvel for the characters, but even they, a team of young Avengers interns, were guilty of saving the universe recently.

kevin
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Offline OtherEric

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 11:19:05 PM »
Hmm, trying to recall what team books I've read recently.  Legion of Super-Heroes, but that's not a title I can rationally discuss.  (It's my one epic complete run.)  Birds of Prey tends to be a bit more street-level, I can't recall them ever saving the universe in the book itself.  (Although many of the cast members have helped in other books at other times.)  Agents of Atlas, which I still miss, was never on that level either.

Offline John C

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 05:37:48 AM »
I guess I find it more acceptable than most, at least in theory.  I mean, you already have most of the big-name heroes saving entire worlds regularly, because that's what they do.  So when you put them on a team together, the implication is that they need to do something bigger, and reality is reasonably big.

On a less meta-fictional level, you also have a lot of obsessive reality-destroying godlings wandering around the universe pissed off at their last defeat.  The surprise in-story should be that this doesn't happen continuously and there's rarely more than one threat to time-space at a time.

So, in theory, I'm OK with it.  In practice, the stories tend to be pretty thin (Marvel's go-to is still to defeat the villain through the power of the scavenger hunt, I believe, while DC's is to mess with the timeline even more to prevent the adventure from happening) and the results are really the star, the stories just being excuses for a new status quo the latest writers decided they want because they can't be bothered to continue someone else's story.

To be fair, most of the stories I loved as a kid were on that scale, so I see the potential in it.  And if I want a story about people in uniforms beating the crap out of petty criminals, I can talk to cops, so I don't have much interest in reading comics about that sort of thing.  It's when it's used as a tool to write out unpopular stories, institutionalizing the idea that history is whatever the writer says it is without just saying it, that it gets on my nerves.

The stories that piss ME off are the "board room of doom" stories that were in fashion for about ten years.  You know, where the villains (or, increasingly, the heroes) spent most of an issue following Robert's Rules of Order discussing how brilliant this plan is.  You know what?  I have meetings at work.  They're not fun.  Reading about other people being at meetings?  Unsurprisingly, LESS fun.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 05:52:50 AM »
The stories that piss ME off are the "board room of doom" stories that were in fashion for about ten years.  You know, where the villains (or, increasingly, the heroes) spent most of an issue following Robert's Rules of Order discussing how brilliant this plan is.  You know what?  I have meetings at work.  They're not fun.  Reading about other people being at meetings?  Unsurprisingly, LESS fun.

 ^-^

Offline Yoc

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 08:19:41 AM »
You know what?  I have meetings at work.  They're not fun.  Reading about other people being at meetings?  Unsurprisingly, LESS fun.

We should have a meeting about that John.
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Offline narfstar

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 03:18:24 PM »
I remember decades ago when Marvel started going cosmic on a regular basis and I did not like it then either.
Birds of Prey keeps it more down to earth and is my only DC title. I regret Avengers Academy being thrown into the Fear Itself cross over crap. I am sure that the honchos at the top insisted.

Offline John C

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 04:02:08 PM »
You know what?  I have meetings at work.  They're not fun.  Reading about other people being at meetings?  Unsurprisingly, LESS fun.

We should have a meeting about that John.
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Ow...

Wait.  Do we even own a table?

Actually, down that path, there's a whole bunch of stuff I don't like about team books.  Training, trophy rooms...writers really do have some sort of weird corporate fetish, don't they?  I can't wait for the guest spots by efficiency consultants who suggest firing Batman because Green Arrow does pretty much the same thing but cheaper.

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 05:35:59 PM »
You know what?  I have meetings at work.  They're not fun.  Reading about other people being at meetings?  Unsurprisingly, LESS fun.

We should have a meeting about that John.
DCMembers ASSEMBLE!
;) :D

Ow...

Wait.  Do we even own a table?

Actually, down that path, there's a whole bunch of stuff I don't like about team books.  Training, trophy rooms...writers really do have some sort of weird corporate fetish, don't they?  I can't wait for the guest spots by efficiency consultants who suggest firing Batman because Green Arrow does pretty much the same thing but cheaper.

Surely trophy rooms are part of the grand superhero team tradition, as all HQ's harken back to secret tree forts from childhood.

And don't call me surely.

Offline Yoc

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 06:43:23 PM »
I can't wait for the guest spots by efficiency consultants who suggest firing Batman because Green Arrow does pretty much the same thing but cheaper.

Roy makes a great point on tree-houses but John made me laugh out loud on that one.
And GA has a very hot wife too.  Take that Robin.  ;)

Offline OtherEric

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2011, 11:12:31 PM »
When Geo and I have our DCM staff meetings we generally just go to a local restaurant.  Use their table instead.  :P

Offline John C

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 05:06:09 AM »
Surely trophy rooms are part of the grand superhero team tradition, as all HQ's harken back to secret tree forts from childhood.

While true, there's just something seriously wrong with all-powerful heroes out to save the world hiding out in their secret, impregnable headquarters surrounded by tokens of past glories.  And it brings up all sorts of questions like, how did they acquire what's surely evidence for a trial, who cleans the place and keeps it organized, and so forth.

Know what I mean, Shir--?

And don't call me surely.

Drat!

When Geo and I have our DCM staff meetings we generally just go to a local restaurant.  Use their table instead.  :P

But they get pissed when you carve your insignia on the chair back...

Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 05:33:14 AM »
Surely trophy rooms are part of the grand superhero team tradition, as all HQ's harken back to secret tree forts from childhood.

While true, there's just something seriously wrong with all-powerful heroes out to save the world hiding out in their secret, impregnable headquarters surrounded by tokens of past glories.  And it brings up all sorts of questions like, how did they acquire what's surely evidence for a trial, who cleans the place and keeps it organized, and so forth.

Know what I mean, Shir--?

Sure, if you want to get all real world about it, but when you're 5 years old reading that stuff, insurance premiums and due process (check out http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/law/archives.shtml for some real world analysis of comic book law, it's awesome. I wish I could find his article on a GA comic where someone was found "guilty in the first degree of murder") and other boring adult stuff doesn't enter into it.

How, exactly, do cosmic rays "mutate" an individual? How exactly does Spider-Man leaving a bunch of dudes strung up in a web lead to them being tried and convicted of bank robbery? How can Superman pass as Clark with just glasses? Why didn't Superman or Captain Marvel just fly over to Germany during WWII and end the war in an afternoon? etc. At some point you either accept the conventions of the (I hesitate to call it a) genre, or you don't. But everyone's "line in the sand" is different I suppose.

On the flip side, why do people ascribe homosexual (and, technically in this case, pedophilic) motivations to a man whose parents were murdered in front of his very eyes, whose very childhood ended that night when he devoted every waking moment to preparing to fight criminals, taking in an orphan boy whose parents were also murdered in front of his very eyes? Does nobody see that he wants to ensure that Dick had a father-surrogate? (Granted, they were sometimes shown in the same bed .... but I chalk it up to ultra-compressed storytelling ... )

On a positive note about comics, does anyone know the altitude requirement for sustaining a geosynchronous orbit? I bet a bunch of people do who were reading comics in the 1970s...


Offline narfstar

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Re: Universe Wreckers
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 06:10:44 AM »
Because nearly every issue of the JLA began with 22.300 miles above the earth