General Category > Comic Related Discussion
Bob Kane and his ghost artists
BobS:
Some of the early Target and the Targeteers "Bob Wood" art looks the same as some of the early Batman art.
Did Bob Wood ghost any Batman or were those Target and the Targeteers stories' art by Robinson & Roussos?
At least one of those Target and the Targeteers stories has names on stores/whatever in the art, like some early Batman art.
Was there a Kane ghost/assistant before Roussos?
When did Kane last do Batman comic book art?
Wasn't 1960s New Look Batman art signed "Bob Kane" mostly (all?) by Shelly Moldoff?
Did Kane REALLY use a ghost artist for Batman art prints he sold?
Who do you guys figure came up with Robin and Joker, Kane or Robinson, or Finger?
Do you think Bill Finger should be credited as co-creator of Batman?
Best to all,
Bob
Public Enemy #1
narfstar:
I think there are few knowledgable comic fans who do not credit finger as co-creator. I thought is was Sprang how did most of the Batman ghosting.
Yoc:
I think there is a site that lists all of Kane's ghosts but I can't recall where off hand.
Google maybe?
moondood:
Was there a Kane ghost/assistant before Roussos?
//As far as I know--no. Roussos came in very early and did a lot of the early lettering on the strip [I'm a comics letterer]. On a side note--when I worked in the Marvel bullpen in the 80's, Roussos was a cover colorist over there, I think he was...and I would pass him in the halls and think--Man, this guy lettered those early Batman stories---how cool is that? I wish I woulda said something--or shook his hand or something....but I was in awe.
When did Kane last do Batman comic book art?
//An excellent question--and I think it depends on how you define "comic book art"...I think he had a hand in it from time to time--sometimes not at all [the Dick Sprang stories--and earlier...the Robinson stories that he did solo]. The earlier the story--the more he may have played a part. By the 50's, I think, he was approving material--or something along those lines.
Wasn't 1960s New Look Batman art signed "Bob Kane" mostly (all?) by Shelly Moldoff?
//I don't think so---the new look was typified by the yellow oval on the chest--that was pretty much Murphy Anderson if memory serves [at first, anyway]--and the new look was an attempt to get away from the Moldoff mold of the previous 12 yrs [prior to 1964, I think]....the alien stories of the 50's and early 60's are pretty typical Moldoff stories--art-wise, that is.
When I learned Moldoff did all that butt-ugly art, I was astonished--his Hawkman in the 40's was kinda klunky--but it had a kind of grace that was completely lacking in his Batman stories---only when I understood that he was ghosting for Kane did I get it--and I think Moldoff was ghosting for Kane without DC's knowledge, if my memory is right.
Did Kane REALLY use a ghost artist for Batman art prints he sold?
//I'd never heard that--but Kane was pretty much a business-man by that time, so maybe. For some odd reason I've never seen explained anywhere, Kane had a better deal with DC than Siegel and Shuster--I have to think it's because he didn't just sign the paper like they did--he was smarter or more informed in some way.
Who do you guys figure came up with Robin and Joker, Kane or Robinson, or Finger?
//Boy, the stories are all over the map, but I don't think Kane had much to do with either. He wasn't smart enough to understand their story function to actually create them. R and F are the likely suspects...and, honestly, I think Finger came up with Robin, and Robinson came up with Joker--but there may be some overlap. Kane was not much of a story guy.
It's like the fate of DB Cooper [not his real name] -- we'll never know the truth.
Do you think Bill Finger should be credited as co-creator of Batman?
//Absolutely--If even half of what I've read is true, he was the one who shaped the image [cowl, color, cape, ears], character background, the atmosphere [borrowed from the very moody Shadow magazine]...and along the way created a mythos that Kane just wasn't equipped for. As much as I like the early Kane stories [much of it due to Finger]--I think Kane was a dick. His "creation" was a success and he took all credit. On the other hand, Finger was an introvert and insecure about his skills--so it was perfect for Kane to take advantage. Finger was enormously talented.
But Bill Finger will not be officially credited because as I mentioned earlier, Kane got a great deal from DC Comics from the get-go in 1939--sole credit. Something S&S didn't have with Superman...so their credit was dropped in the late 40's [I think in relation to their Superboy lawsuit].
Legally, DC cannot credit Bill Finger with co-creation due to the contracts.
They try to rectify it somewhat in collections and articles---but official credit will and does go to Bob Kane....even on the movies.
On another personal note--I met Dick Sprang---one a' my all time favorite Bat-artists in San Diego--man, in 1986, I think---I DID shake his hand and even got an autograph--even though I'm not much of an autograph guy--even when I later worked on Hollywood films--But this man--I HAD TO. I even wrote a letter about it to the CBG that was published.
Obviously I'm a Bat-freak--even lettered the Legends of the Dark Knight series for a few years [good times]--and there are lots of good Bat-artists along the way--Kane included in a weird way.
Robinson, Sprang, Adams, Newton, Aparo---whew! Good stuff.
Kurt Hathaway
aka moondood
NobbyNobbs:
Acording to Julius Schwartz ca half of the "new look with the yellow oval on the chest" was done by Shelly Moldoff, as Bob Kane had a contract with DC that he would be offered every second Batman story (and the yellow oval was a Julius Schwartz thing, that he demanded be used on all the issues he edited.)
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