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Author Topic: Pictures of old Comic stands  (Read 21864 times)

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Drusilla lives!

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2010, 11:59:47 AM »
Well here's some more comments (and numbers) from that Nicky Wright book...

Quote
... Sales of the 143 titles on the newsstands in 1942 were rising at an unprecedented rate with 15 million comics being sold every month.  With sales to a captive market overseas (hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen), circulation rates kept going up, up and up.

Fiction House good girl comics were just the thing our boys needed over there.  The company's "Big Six of the Comics," as Fiction House promoted itself, had combined sales totaling 737,000 a month by September 1942.  Just like movie star actresses such as Betty Grable, Sheena was lording it in the barrack rooms across Britian and the Far East.  Senorita Rio traveled in many a soldier's kit...

Compared to Superman's 1,100,000 bi-monthly sale, Fiction House's 737,000 for six titles is quite small.  This figure was to nearly double in the next couple of years, thanks partly to the vastly increased number of U.S. forces stationed around the globe.  At the time these figures were issued, Parents Magazine's "True Comics," "Real Hero Comics" and "Calling All Girls" were chalking up 750,000 a month, Quality's nine titles, including "Police Comics," sold 1,100,000 monthly, Marvel's ten comics sold 1,250,000 while Street & Smith who published "The Shadow," "Doc Savage" and "Supersnipe," and five other comic books, chalked up monthly sales of 1,285,000.  Nevertheless, Harry Donenfeld's National Comics outsold everybody else with sales of 1,375,000.  Except Fawcett.  By July 1943, Fawcett's 14 comics had a combined circulation of over 7,400,000.  And "Captain Marvel Adventures" passed Superman to become the biggest selling comic of all time.  ...

... the bold highlights on that Fawcett data was my touch, just incredible numbers IMO.   Now you know why DC wanted to crush Fawcett and in particular Captain Marvel... what a shocking phenom that Captain Marvel character was IMO.  And yet today he is mostly forgotten... SHAZAM!!!!!

« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 12:07:05 PM by Drusilla lives! »

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2010, 11:59:47 AM »

Offline Yoc

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2010, 01:18:11 PM »
I wouldn't call it overly shocking DL.
Crime Does Not Pay becoming a number 1 book after years of Superman/Capt Marvel and Dell books being #1 is more of a shock to me.  Capt Marvel was another of the hero books started by Superman.
---
You might not be a fan of the SOTI book but the 1954 Senate Subcommittee Hearings into Juvenile Delinquency talked a lot about comic distribution, numbers and methods that I would think you might find interesting.  I sure did even if it does take time to read all of it.  
Here is the main link which gives a short synopsis of each person's testimony:
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/1954senatetranscripts.html

You can find some circulation numbers in the testimony of Monroe Froehlich, Jr., Business Manager of Magazine Management Co. (Marvel Comics). Here's the link:  
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/froehlich.html

You will also see some distribution numbers in the testimony of Mrs. Helen Meyer, Vice president of Dell here:
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/meyermurphy.html

Harold Chamberlain, Circulation director the Independent News Co. (DC) where he talks about killing off specific titles like "Frankenstein," "Out of the Night," "Forbidden Worlds," and  "Clutching Hand".  He takes credit for forcing Prize into making Frankenstein a humour comic.
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/chamberlain.html

George B. Davis, President of Kable News Co. (EC's distributer) also quotes some numbers for his own company -
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/davis.html

-Yoc

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2010, 01:36:36 PM »
And now that I think about it (after reviewing that Nicky Wright book), it was WWII that briefly spurred the growth of comic sales to unrealistic/unsustainable levels.  

Anyway, my (very brief) current take on the early history of comics (at least from a financial/distribution/demographic POV) is...

(1930-1940)

- Pulp magazine publishers in the mid-to-late 1930s needed to find a new print medium to expand into... one which would be more "visual" based to counter the coming age of electronic media.  Don't forget, radio was big, but prototype televisions were being developed in the 30s, and their potential was clear... what they (as well as the movies) offered the public was a new (visual) way of consuming/telling stories (the sequential visual narrative).  Thus, with this in mind and seeing the success of funny page reprint titles such as Eastern's "Famous Funnies," many of them began producing comic books... if not as a replacement to their pulps, at least as a supplement to them.  And in my opinion, this is reflected in the style and tone of many of these early comics... in concept, at his core, Superman was a (science fiction) pulp character really... as was the early Batman (in essence a crime pulp character).

- This new format caught on with children (for various reasons) instead of what (IMO) its original intended audience was... adults.  And by 1940 the vast majority of comic books purchased seem to be purchased by children and not adults... which raised concerns in various circles about content... hence, the birth of the Werthams of the world.

(1941-45)

- The U.S. enters WWII.  There is a further surge in sales... this time among adults (military service personnel)... which, btw, was never to be seen again.

(1945-50)

- By late 1945, with the war over, sales (at least among adults) declined to pre-war levels... wanting to keep that audience the comic industry reinvented itself somewhat (as did the movie industry before it)... by introducing new titles and genres that they hoped would interest them.  In particular, romance and later horror.  Crime comics (which always paid... despite what Lev Gleason stated on his comic) were also re-imagined (to be more like their pulp predecessors... although, Gleason's book was always so IMO), as were the jungle comics.  Unfortunately, this usually meant they became more violent and sexualized... particularly in the hands of such people as Victor Fox.  

- As early as 1948 you already had too many comics... some of which of questionable content for their real audience (children).  Unfortunately, these very same titles were "high profile" ones... and hence, were easy targets for crusaders of various stripes.  

(1950-56)

- In the early 50s, with another boom in comics due to the horror genre (and a larger population of children, and both older adolescents and college bound twenty somethings who might have read comics in their earlier youth), the stands were eventually glutted with titles that many newsstand retailers had no interest or time in contending with.

- Unfortunately, it seems the majority of adults of that era didn't embrace the comic book medium and (IMO) at best, viewed it as a novelty of the war years (or of their youth).  Which is very unfortunate, for (again IMO) some of these comics were extremely well done... consisting of superb art and very well written, creative stories.  Which I think would have held (and appealed to) the imagination of a large number of these older readers. There was also unfortunately a lot of pandering "copy-cat" trash being published as well... more than the market could bear... and which gave further fuel to the self-appointed "do-gooders" of the world.

Thus IMO...

-The "implosion" of the mid 50s was inevitable.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 02:55:14 PM by Drusilla lives! »

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2010, 01:45:31 PM »
I wouldn't call it overly shocking DL.
Crime Does Not Pay becoming a number 1 book after years of Superman/Capt Marvel and Dell books being #1 is more of a shock to me.  Capt Marvel was another of the hero books started by Superman.
---
You might not be a fan of the SOTI book but the 1954 Senate Subcommittee Hearings into Juvenile Delinquency talked a lot about comic distribution, numbers and methods that I would think you might find interesting.  I sure did even if it does take time to read all of it.  
Here is the main link which gives a short synopsis of each person's testimony:
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/1954senatetranscripts.html

You can find some circulation numbers in the testimony of Monroe Froehlich, Jr., Business Manager of Magazine Management Co. (Marvel Comics). Here's the link:  
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/froehlich.html

You will also see some distribution numbers in the testimony of Mrs. Helen Meyer, Vice president of Dell here:
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/meyermurphy.html

Harold Chamberlain, Circulation director the Independent News Co. (DC) where he talks about killing off specific titles like "Frankenstein," "Out of the Night," "Forbidden Worlds," and  "Clutching Hand".  He takes credit for forcing Prize into making Frankenstein a humour comic.
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/chamberlain.html

George B. Davis, President of Kable News Co. (EC's distributer) also quotes some numbers for his own company -
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/davis.html

-Yoc


Thanks for these links Yoc, I'll take a look at them when I get a chance.  I actually think I remember reading that hearing info awhile back when we were discussing EC and Wertham on the other site. 

Yes, if I recall correctly, at the 1954 hearing Dell was said to have been the largest comics publisher of the era... with success coming from the Disney characters like Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge.  Now how that fits with Wright's comments I'm not sure... perhaps that was in the post-war (late 40s) period.

Offline John C

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2010, 07:45:07 AM »
There are no magazines or magazine racks in the picture, but some of you might (ahem) vaguely recognize the subject matter as having something of an (cough, cough) influence on certain comic books of the day:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/JohnnyGunn/GSI_NY_Worlds_Fair_Perisphere.jpg

This is from a series of pictures produced, well, at the end of the '30s, by the Farm Security Administration, armed with spankin' brand-new Kodachrome film.  So that's a real color image of what seems to be the Golden Age's most famous landmark.  (Heh--not that I'd probably recognize it as such, had Roy Thomas not used it so prominently and slightly-but-intentionally-anachronistically in All-Star Squadron.)

This picture surfaced with many others here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/12/7/04913/9030

which someone passed on to me after I brought up the earlier Albert Kahn pictures using the first industrial color, rather than commercial, film (http://citynoise.org/article/10598) and the still earlier Prokudin-Gorskii multiple-plate color exposures (http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/), though they aren't quite as relevant to the topic at hand, so forget I mentioned them...

Offline Yoc

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2010, 10:19:17 AM »
Thanks for the link John, fun stuff!

Drusilla lives!

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2010, 11:53:13 PM »
... George B. Davis, President of Kable News Co. (EC's distributer) also quotes some numbers for his own company -
http://www.thecomicbooks.com/davis.html

Kable News Co. was EC's distributer?  I wasn't aware of that.

Ya know, after reading his testimony (the Davis testimony, that is) and considering the things discussed here... specifically, the number of titles going out to the newsstands and the possible burden that all those comics could have had on the average news dealer (particularly considering such absurd things as "alpha-sorted" racks)... as well as what I've read over the years about Gaines' efforts to "ensure" that his comics reached the stands (encouraging the readers to ask the news dealer for them if they couldn't find them, his own written requests to the distributer and wholesalers, etc, etc...) I sorta get the feeling that something doesn't completely add up with him (Gaines, that is)... I mean, how could he be that myopic?  

If we find it odd, and could see that there was a real problem with the comic industry as a whole back then... some sixty years after the fact... and that an inevitable collapse was coming, why couldn't he?  He couldn't realize that maybe news dealers weren't just turning away his comics, but that they were turning away everyone else's as well, that it was becoming an impossible situation?  How could he have been that out of the loop?

Btw, I should mention that there is an editorial that ran at one point in the various letters pages of the EC comics, speaking of "boom and bust" cycles in the industry (and then subsequently cajoling the reader to "buy EC") but it now somehow seems to come off rather oddly.  I mean, it's almost like Gaines didn't see himself as part of the comics industry somehow... that they were somehow "above the fray" so to speak.  Which they were (at least in my opinion), but I can't help think that that mindset on the part of Gaines was symptomatic of a deeper personal issue with him that ultimately led to the ghastly outcome of the 54 hearings.

I guess what I'm driving at is that it seems more and more (to me anyway) that Gaines was his own worst enemy... perhaps intentionally so, or perhaps only on some subconscious level.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 10:24:29 AM by Drusilla lives! »

Offline Yoc

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2010, 12:52:42 AM »
Hi D,
Have you read 'Mad World of William M Gaines' by Frank Jacobs?  I recommend it.
A very good read telling the odd world that Gaines created around himself.  To say he was a character is an understatement.
:)

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 10:21:10 AM »
I've read various excerpts from it Yoc... bits and pieces of it were used in the notes to Russ Cochran's Weird Fantasy volumes (part of his EC Library collection).  I would love to get a hold of a copy though... that, and a copy of that big Wood bio that came out just a few years back. 

I searched Amazon a while back for it (that Gaines bio) and couldn't find it at all... is it still in publication?

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2010, 10:43:30 AM »
I guess in some ways we should consider the comic book "boom" of the late 40s-early 50s as yet another classic example of greed and self delusion running amuck... much like the "tulip mania" and unfortunately our more recent experiences with real estate.

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2010, 11:35:16 AM »
I've read various excerpts from it Yoc... bits and pieces of it were used in the notes to Russ Cochran's Weird Fantasy volumes (part of his EC Library collection).  I would love to get a hold of a copy though... that, and a copy of that big Wood bio that came out just a few years back. 

I searched Amazon a while back for it (that Gaines bio) and couldn't find it at all... is it still in publication?

Get as many copies as you want here, DL. http://www.abebooks.com

Click advance search and enter mad world of William Gaines in the title and Jacobs in the author fields. You're home free.

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JVJ Publishing and VW inc.

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2010, 10:02:37 PM »
Thanks Jim. 

Offline narfstar

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2010, 10:22:27 PM »
Abe's does seem to have almost anything. My wife is a huge fan of the movie GLORY. She likes civil war history and especially the 54th. We found several copies of "Lay this Laurel" at Abe's and I got her one for her birthday.

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2010, 10:02:04 AM »
On a somewhat related note, I found this news rather interesting.  The Wertham papers have been opened to the public at the Library of Congress (here's also a direct link to a LofC blog with more info).  

Seems that those of you who are interested in finding out exactly which comics Wertham used in his "research" (and what he thought of them) will get the chance to finally find out.  :)

Offline Yoc

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Re: Pictures of old Comic stands
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2010, 12:48:07 PM »
Very interesting!
I'm sure the sellers will be listing any comics not already flagged and doubling their prices (more?) on them.
*sigh*

Still, it's something I'd love to spend a day looking around at.
-Yoc