General Category > Comic Related Discussion
Holyoke is a Myth...
Captain DJ:
Should be working now.
Turns out problem was 2 Blue Beetle files and 1 other file that were in database, in the link to cat table but the cat they were listed under wasn't in the category table. Deleted these comics since they didn't work anyway and all seems to be working now. This bug been on GAC since 2006 it seems and you were first to have reported it :)
Henry Andrews (fox_centaur):
--- Quote from: bchat on April 05, 2010, 09:02:23 PM ---I'm curious as to how Bilbara is linked to "Holyoke, etc", since Bilbara had the same editorial address as Worth Publishing (publisher of early Champion Comics issues). Both Bilbara & Worth operated out of 122 East 42nd Street, New York, NY in 1940, whereas at that same point in time, Nita, Helnit, Tem & Brookwood had their editorial office at 381 Fourth Avenue, NYC NY.
--- End quote ---
Hmm... I should pay attention to these boards more often :-) I wrote up a huge discussion of all of these companies on the gcd-main list near the beginning of the year. I was going to repost it here, but a lot of it covers details of exactly how the GCD entries are organized wrongly, and 90% of the rest of it is the same as what JVJ said to start off this threat (wonderfully provocative title!) so I'll just skip to replying to a few points and addressing one or two missed items.
The link between the Worth and Temerson companies is pretty simple, actually. Charles Quinlan was Worth Carnahan's business partner in Bilbara, Worth and Hit (there's an interview with Carnahan's daughter in an issue of Comic Book Marketplace somewhere that covers this). After the titles published by those three companies ended, Quinlan moved over to Helnit, and eventually took over as art director there. Previously, as Bob Hughes just noted on a wonderfully researched post on the GCD's main list, Temerson was getting his material from Bert Whitman productions. This was true for the early companies (Brookwood, Tem and Nita) and for Green Hornet under Helnit. Bob has also identified the connection with Temerson's much earlier comics venture, Ultem (with I.W. Ullman).
Great Comics Publications is a different animal entirely. Remember that a lot of these buildings in New York hold multiple office spaces. Great was active while Holyoke took over Helnit, did not list a Holyoke, Mass printing address, and most tellingly, had contents provided by the Iger shop. At this point Helnit/Holyoke was all being produced by Quinlan.
An interesting point of difference between how the "Holyoke" issues of Cat-Man and Captain Aero were handled vs how Blue Beetle was handled- the Temerson titles were produced by the same staff. Basically, just the printing/ownership changed. But the Blue Beetle title didn't come with the entire former Fox staff, so it changed under Holyoke, with many of the Temerson artists contributing (and some then continuing into Sparkling Stars).
thanks,
-henry
phabox (RIP):
Interesting stuff, very slowly the mystery of these companies is starting to unfold.
-Nigel
bchat:
--- Quote from: fox_centaur on April 07, 2010, 10:47:45 AM ---The link between the Worth and Temerson companies is pretty simple, actually. Charles Quinlan was Worth Carnahan's business partner in Bilbara, Worth and Hit (there's an interview with Carnahan's daughter in an issue of Comic Book Marketplace somewhere that covers this). After the titles published by those three companies ended, Quinlan moved over to Helnit, and eventually took over as art director there.
--- End quote ---
So, if I'm understanding this statement correctly, the connection of Bilbara to "Holyoke" is made by a single creator (Quinlan) working for both companies? That's not really much of a connection, considering how many other creators worked for multiple publishers.
--- Quote ---Great Comics Publications is a different animal entirely. Remember that a lot of these buildings in New York hold multiple office spaces. Great was active while Holyoke took over Helnit, did not list a Holyoke, Mass printing address, and most tellingly, had contents provided by the Iger shop. At this point Helnit/Holyoke was all being produced by Quinlan.
--- End quote ---
Cyclone Comics 1 (Bilbara) & Champion Comics 9 (Worth) both have the same editorial address, yet have different publication addresses (420 De Soto Ave, St Louis MO & 8 Lord Street, Buffalo NY respectively). Family Comics Inc published Speed Comics 43 (May-June 1946) using a publication address of 1117 Wolfendale Ave, Pittsburgh PA, while FCI's All-New Comics 13 (July-August 1946) has a publication address of 420 De Soto Ave, St Louis MO. Centuar Publications' Wham Comics 1 (Nov 1940) has a publication address of 221 East 20th St., Chicago IL, while their Super Spy 1 (Oct 1940) has a publication address of 420 De Soto Ave, St Louis MO. So, citing different printing addresses isn't enough to convince me that two titles sharing the same editorial address during the same period of time were published by different companies. All that the different printing addresses tell me is that different printers were used to print different books.
JVJ (RIP):
--- Quote from: fox_centaur on April 07, 2010, 10:47:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: bchat on April 05, 2010, 09:02:23 PM ---I'm curious as to how Bilbara is linked to "Holyoke, etc", since Bilbara had the same editorial address as Worth Publishing (publisher of early Champion Comics issues). Both Bilbara & Worth operated out of 122 East 42nd Street, New York, NY in 1940, whereas at that same point in time, Nita, Helnit, Tem & Brookwood had their editorial office at 381 Fourth Avenue, NYC NY.
--- End quote ---
Hmm... I should pay attention to these boards more often :-) I wrote up a huge discussion of all of these companies on the gcd-main list near the beginning of the year. I was going to repost it here, but a lot of it covers details of exactly how the GCD entries are organized wrongly, and 90% of the rest of it is the same as what JVJ said to start off this threat (wonderfully provocative title!) so I'll just skip to replying to a few points and addressing one or two missed items.
The link between the Worth and Temerson companies is pretty simple, actually. Charles Quinlan was Worth Carnahan's business partner in Bilbara, Worth and Hit (there's an interview with Carnahan's daughter in an issue of Comic Book Marketplace somewhere that covers this). After the titles published by those three companies ended, Quinlan moved over to Helnit, and eventually took over as art director there. Previously, as Bob Hughes just noted on a wonderfully researched post on the GCD's main list, Temerson was getting his material from Bert Whitman productions. This was true for the early companies (Brookwood, Tem and Nita) and for Green Hornet under Helnit. Bob has also identified the connection with Temerson's much earlier comics venture, Ultem (with I.W. Ullman).
Great Comics Publications is a different animal entirely. Remember that a lot of these buildings in New York hold multiple office spaces. Great was active while Holyoke took over Helnit, did not list a Holyoke, Mass printing address, and most tellingly, had contents provided by the Iger shop. At this point Helnit/Holyoke was all being produced by Quinlan.
An interesting point of difference between how the "Holyoke" issues of Cat-Man and Captain Aero were handled vs how Blue Beetle was handled- the Temerson titles were produced by the same staff. Basically, just the printing/ownership changed. But the Blue Beetle title didn't come with the entire former Fox staff, so it changed under Holyoke, with many of the Temerson artists contributing (and some then continuing into Sparkling Stars).
thanks,
-henry
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Henry,
glad you're able to add some clarity to the Quinlan connection. It's certainly true that Bilbara (Cyclone) and Worth (Champion) both ended before Helnit (Green Hornet, Catman, Capt. Aero and Capt. Fearless) begin. It's a fact I'd noticed but not internalized with regard Quinlan's role.
There is still the weird "coincidence" of Whirlwind (main character "Cyclone") debuting from Nita the same month that Cyclone debuts from Bilbara. I believe it is pure coincidence, but others find it indicative of some hidden connection. I remain skeptical.
Does anyone have an exact date on Green Hornet #1? My research shows 12/40, but that seems a couple of months early based on all the other Helnit titles. And, actually, my notes on all of the GH issues are second hand. Does anyone have dates and publishing addresses directly from the comics?
I know that Whitman Studio supplied the art for GH, but I've never felt them as a major presence in the other early Temerson titles, but I confess to not having seen them all, too. Any chance you have some scans to share?
Okay, I wanted to shoehorn Great and Choice in, and it's probably asking too much. They were distributed by ANC, too, as well as built from Iger Shop work, so the shoe probably really doesn't fit. I understand the nature of the addresses in New York. The current ground floor of 220 W 42nd St. appears to be a very large MacDonalds, with lots of office space above. Who knows what it looked like 70 years ago? BTW, you're correct when you say that Great "did not list a Holyoke, Mass printing address," but it should be said that it did not list ANY printing address.
Doesn't the art change somewhat when the editorial address on Catman and Capt. Aero moves to 52 Vanderbilt? I'm stuck with no access to my notes and comics, so I'm working from memory here. Quinlan fades out, if memory serves, and Willner becomes more prominent. Willner (and Ulmer) are prominent at both Holyoke AND Continental - in fact, I think Willner is listed as the final editor in the last Catman Ownership Statement. He does a lot of work for Sparkling Stars.
Thanks again for your interesting commentary and someday I'll have to locate that CBM and reread the interview with Carnahan's daughter.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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