Digital Comic Museum
General Category => Comic Related Discussion => Topic started by: OtherEric on June 17, 2010, 12:39:56 AM
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We have a few Charlton books that supposedly feature Joe Maneely art on site, and I'm scanning yet another one from my collection (Wyatt Earp, Frontier Marshal 21) at the moment. But to me, the stories that are attributed to him (I'm going mostly by the GCD here for exact stories) don't look that much like any other work I've seen of his. This has been commented on in some articles; I've seen one where Dr. Vassallo describes them as "Sparsely drawn Westerns". Since I was scanning the book I wanted to throw the subject up for discussion, since I haven't heard much said about his (or other Atlas artists) work at Charlton after the Atlas implosion, other than brief mentions that it happened.
It is an interesting quick of the publishing history around then: at least three artists (Williamson, Maneely, and Severin) worked on both Atlas's and Charlton's concurrently running Wyatt Earp series in the late 50's.
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And a ton of EC artists ended up working at Marvel (Atlas) after the fall of Gaines's comics. Al, of course, but also Reed Crandall, Angelo Torres, John Severin, even Wally Wood on occasion...Marvel's Westerns and war comics of the time were some of the best-drawn around.
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FORTY YEARS ago, I wrote an article about this stuff. I guess it needs to see print again. Here is what appeared in Promethean Enterprises #2 in 1970:
http://www.bpib.com/test/GAC/dark%20ages.pdf (http://www.bpib.com/test/GAC/dark%20ages.pdf)
Remember, this was written pre-Price Guide.
still (c) 1970 Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Very cool!
Thanks for sharing this Jim.
:D
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A fantastic read, Jim. Not just where to find non-Atlas Maneely (a HUGE favorite of mine), but, more accurately, where to find EVERYONE between 1955 and 1961...the biggies, anyway.
I had read in a thread recently that OtherEric has a 100-page Giant Charleton featuring Maneely art, and that's why this thread caught my eye. Glad it did! Now, I want to tear home and start digging out some countless issues. :P
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You can't find the scans here, Builderboy,
but the earliest Maneely can be found at Street & Smith in 1948 issues of Red Dragon and Supersnipe. GREAT stuff.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Ulp. I started a separate thread on the Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshal #21 before I read this thread. Perhaps some admin might want to fold that into this thread or...whatever. I suppose it works as a stand-alone thread as well.
The more I think about it, the supposedly Maneely art in this issue is obviously Maneely in some fashion, but if it was him doing both pencils and inks then he was beginning to approach an Alex Toth-like simplicity. More likely, it strikes me as Maneely pencils with someone else inking.
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It's Maneely solo, Poz,
working fast and cheap for minimum wage. Charlton was the bottom of the barrel and Joe was whipping these out.
Wyatt Earp was an historical figure and in the public domain. Dell had a Wyatt Earp title, too. No connection here with Severin at Atlas. Atlas had imploded and all of their artists were struggling for survival.
The history of 1958 Charlton is based almost entirely on the Atlas Implosion of 1957. Truth is more interesting...
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Wyatt Earp was an historical figure and in the public domain. Dell had a Wyatt Earp title, too. No connection here with Severin at Atlas. Atlas had imploded and all of their artists were struggling for survival.
While technically true, there would still be a trademark issue to deal with. Without permission, the Atlas people could easily make the case that Charlton was trading on their reputation--especially with the same artists. Either Charlton (rightly) guessed that nobody at Atlas would care or have the money, or they called over and asked permission.
But you can't, for example, publish a comic titled "Superman" adapting "Man and Superman" without hearing from Time-Warner, even though it "should be" in the public domain.
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Atlas's Wyatt Earp first issue had a cover date of November 1955. Charlton's Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshal first issue (actually #12) had a cover date of January 1956.
Given how loose cover dates were back then, and the fact that Wyatt Earp was historical, I doubt any lawyer would say the lawsuit had enough of a chance to win to be worth the fight.
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Never mind. I'm an idiot. One series is "Wyatt Earp" and one is "Wyatt Earp, Frontier Marshall." Given that there's no Wyatt Earp estate defending its trademark, that's fair game.
I thought both books carried the same title. If they had, then the odds wouldn't look good for the Charlton book. "It's too soon" might limit the damages, but wouldn't keep the title in the market.
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don't forget, Hugh O'Brian, Famous Marshal Wyatt Earp, from Dell, John C.
He was on TV and very popular.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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And reviving a thread from nearly a year ago, I'm toying with putting together a "Maneely at Charlton" collection now that we have most of the stories I'm aware of- and I know at least two of the three I know we're missing are on the way. With that in mind, I wanted to post a checklist of what stories he did for Charlton, pretty directly cribbed from the GCD. I'm looking for any additions or corrections people know of.
Cowboy Western #67 March 1958
Trapped in the Badlands Wild Bill Hickok and Jingles 8 pages
Marked Men! 4 pages
Showdown Street Wild Bill Hickok and Jingles 3 pages
At the Governor's Ball Wild Bill Hickok and Jingles 5 pages
The Giveaway! Wild Bill Hickok and Jingles 2 pages
Rocky Lane's Black Jack #22 March 1958
Trouble At Sunrise! 4 pages
The Stagecoach Mystery 5 pages
Six-Gun Heroes #45 March 1958
Gunfighter For Hire! 6 pages
Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshal #20 March 1958
Depserado's Trail 4 pages
Tex Ritter Western #40 April 1958
Two Guns for Laredo 6 pages
Lash Larue Western #68 May 1958
The Calamity Kid 5 pages
Six-Gun Heroes #47 July 1958
The James Gang Strikes Jesse James 5 pages
Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshal #21 September 1958
Double Doublecross Wyatt Earp 7 pages
The Side of the Law Wyatt Earp 5 pages
Fight or…Crawl Wyatt Earp 5 pages
Tex Ritter Western #43 October 1958
The Vanishing Herd 5 pages
Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshal #22 November 1958
Wyatt Earp's Six-Shooter Secrets Wyatt Earp 2 pages
Outlaws of the West #19 April 1959
Cover 1 page
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I've put out the SOS on the Timely-Atlas group.
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You can't find the scans here, Builderboy,
but the earliest Maneely can be found at Street & Smith in 1948 issues of Red Dragon and Supersnipe. GREAT stuff.
Jim,
Didn't Maneely also do some early work for Treasure Chest and Hillman? I seem to remember Doc V mentioning that over at Timely-Atlas. If so we may have some of those stories here at DCM.
Best
Joe
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The more I think about it, the supposedly Maneely art in this issue is obviously Maneely in some fashion, but if it was him doing both pencils and inks then he was beginning to approach an Alex Toth-like simplicity. More likely, it strikes me as Maneely pencils with someone else inking.
Maneely's work at this same time for DC, where he no doubt was making a much better wage, is quite a contrast to this Charlton work. Much more detailed. IIRC, some of his work at DC was also inked by Joe Sinnott (also looking for work elsewhere after the Atlas Implosion)..
Best
Joe
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I have a listing I did 25 years ago - never updated:
House of Mystery 72,226
House of Secrets 95
Tales of the Unexpected 126
Kid Cowboy (Ziff Davis) 2
Gunfighters (Charlton 1979) 53
Top Secrets 5
Perfect Crime 2
Loco 1
Cracked 1-5,12
I've seen LOTS more in the interevening years. Just failed to list them on the cards. Don't recall any Treasure Chests, but that could easily be a memory problem. Hillman rings a faint bell.
I always thought Maneely pencilled and inked his own work. DocV can answer that better than I can. The variation in his style was attributed by me to the amount of time he had to invest for the amount of money he got in return. If he had to do ten pages to make $100, he did the very quickly. If he could do five and make the save $100, those pages were better drawn and more finished.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Those Hillman and Treasure Chest credits in the Who's Who were originally from me - long ago. I just took a break from working on my website overhaul and here's the info:
Treasure Chest V5:5 11/1/49
Airboy V6:10 11/49
Must have been a time when Joe was thinking about work outside of Timely...
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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And reviving a thread from nearly a year ago, I'm toying with putting together a "Maneely at Charlton" collection now that we have most of the stories I'm aware of-
I think that this is a great idea! The archives and collections section has been so far centered around characters/features rather than artists although some such as Dan Brand/Frazetta, Culture Corner/Wolverton, and Stardust/Hanks are both. However also having collections just centered around artists would be great for fans of various artists and also a useful tool for researchers (such as the GCD compilers) wanting to study certain artist's styles.
Best
Joe
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How beautiful would a GGA Matt Baker collection look ;D
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Beautiful and HUGE!
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But most would not get tired looking through the whole thing. What a treat for the eyes.
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Tex Ritter Western #43 (October 1958)
"The Vanishing Herd" -5 pages
Definitely Maneely. Pretty quick job, but him alright.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Thanks Jim!
Now if we could only find a copy of Tex Ritter Western #45 to confirm GCD for that issue as well.
:)
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Beautiful and HUGE!
Actually probably only half as "HUGE" as you imagine...
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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It's not Tex Ritter 45, it's Six-Gun Heroes 45 that the GCD is taunting us with. That's the only one we don't have, or won't have soon.
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Beautiful and HUGE!
Actually probably only half as "HUGE" as you imagine...
Peace, Jim (|:{>
I'm with JVJ on this, meaning that at least half of the stories out there attributed to Matt Baker are probably mostly Iger shop art.
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Someday, Poz,
TwoMorrows will publish Jim Amash's Matt Baker book with a real Matt Baker index - there's going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth and a BUNCH of dealers telling their customers that Alberto Becattini and I are WRONG WRONG WRONG and that their high-priced purchases really ARE Baker. But you and I know better...
Someday, all this farce will end. And what makes me the happiest is that the mediocre aspects of "Baker's Style" will be pruned from his career. What will remain is the real work by the real artist and his reputation can only be enhanced by seeing his work separated from his imitators and copiers. It will bring the man UP to the position he truly deserves in the canon of comic artists. Right now he's being held down by the inadequacies of his imitators and the cachet
(and the price) that is attached to anything he "did".
Someday...
Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Wow, that's a wonderful dream Jim.
Baker, the real Baker, deserves far more attention starting with coffee table collections, bios, etc that all the other Greats of the field are getting.
-Yoc
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Great project Jim. When you look with such wonder at Baker's real work he does deserve the facts out there.
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FYI - DocV mentioned that Maneely is also in a filler of Airboy (V6 #10) "Washington's Scout".
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A copy of Six Gun Heroes 45 has been located, scans will follow soon.
I've posted just the story attributed to Maneely as a preview, I would appreciate it if people who are familiar with his work could give it a look and say if they think the attribution is accurate. I have a very definite opinion, but I don't want to bias others. Thank you!
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I just looked at the first page of the story and it certainly looks like Maneely to me. It's that simpler, more pared down style he adopted when he went to Charlton.
BTW, did the scanner go to the extra trouble of removing the staples of the comic in order to get a little better scan? If so, kudos for going the extra mile!
Best
Joe
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Everybody seems to agree it's Maneely. I certainly thought it was, I'm just not enough of an expert on his work to feel comfortable saying so without somebody better at spotting art backing me up.
And yes, I pulled the staples to scan the book. They were fairly badly offset from the spine fold and it seemed like the best call.