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Author Topic: Character "Borrowing"  (Read 3233 times)

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Offline profpike

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Character "Borrowing"
« on: October 03, 2013, 11:13:47 PM »
Okay-so I posted that Cracked Article and I'll admit that I'm kind of new to the "hard core" golden age fans-but even in my cursory examination, there just seem to be too many coincidences of "borrowed" characters from lesser publishing houses that were used by the ones that became majors. Is it just me or am I onto something here?
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Character "Borrowing"
« on: October 03, 2013, 11:13:47 PM »

Offline CharlieRock

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 01:28:22 AM »
I'm thinking a lot of the guys back then who were working for a publisher were told "Just make a comic book like this" and the editor held up a competitors copy. The writer then made a comic book like that.
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Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 09:28:31 PM »
Quote from: CharlieRock on October 08, 2013, 01:28:22 AM
I'm thinking a lot of the guys back then who were working for a publisher were told "Just make a comic book like this" and the editor held up a competitors copy. The writer then made a comic book like that.

Wonder Man?
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Offline John C

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 04:38:21 AM »
Quote from: Roygbiv666 on October 08, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
Wonder Man?

Who, to Eisner's credit, is much more distinctive from Superman than I would have imagined from the history...
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Offline Roygbiv666

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 05:25:43 AM »
The copyright infringement basis of the case was mainly the structure of the story wasn't it? The issue was very similar to an Action Comics issue, Judge Hand citing various panels.

Quote from: John C on October 09, 2013, 04:38:21 AM
Quote from: Roygbiv666 on October 08, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
Wonder Man?

Who, to Eisner's credit, is much more distinctive from Superman than I would have imagined from the history...
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Offline John C

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 04:34:52 AM »
Yes, I wasn't dismissing the results of the lawsuit.  There were a couple dozen panels that were similar enough in structure to make it an easy infringement case.  The story is definitely a Superman adventure, cobbled together from Siegel and Shuster elements, but I was surprised that Wonder Man didn't strike me as a knockoff of Superman.  A couple of changes to captions and art layout, and Fox may well have won.

That reminds me...let's see if I can find it.  One of the recurring images in the Captain Marvel trial, as I recall, was Cap/Superman riding missiles like horses.  Turns out (like the discussion of Captain America's shield having a possibly-common source with the Shield's emblem) there may be a non-copying reason for multiple companies to have used that iconograpy.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/10/did-a-wwi-recruiting-poster-inspire-the-most-iconic-shot-in-em-dr-strangelove-em/280142/

Now, my guess is that Kubrick was referencing the Superman shots, but did all the Golden Age artists...?
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Offline Yoc

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 08:31:09 AM »
The DC vs Fox case is covered in wonderful detail on Ken Quattro's absolutely amazing blog -
The Comics Detective here -
DC VS VICTOR FOX: The Testimony of Gaines & Mayer
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Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 09:39:18 AM »
Quote
Now, my guess is that Kubrick was referencing the Superman shots, but did all the Golden Age artists...?
There I'd beg to differ with you, John. It seems VERY obvious to me, and to quite a few Kubrick fans, that Major Kong is in the grips of sexual ecstasy as he prepares to deliver his payload. Kubrick's notes regarding the scene back me up on this. He wasn't referencing comic books or recruiting posters. That thing between his legs is meant to be pretty much what it looks like...

Peace, Jim (|:{>
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 09:53:38 AM by JVJ »
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Offline Yoc

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2013, 10:13:18 AM »
hehe, yeah, I never had much doubt he was pretty 'happy' in the moment.  Great film!
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Offline CharlieRock

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 01:57:24 PM »
Quote from: Yoc on October 10, 2013, 10:13:18 AM
hehe, yeah, I never had much doubt he was pretty 'happy' in the moment.  Great film!

Oops. I thought he was riding a horse, too.  ???
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Offline mr_goldenage (RIP)

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 02:42:01 PM »
Are we talking Dr Stranglove movie here or am I just confused as usual?

RB @ Work
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Offline John C

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 03:40:05 PM »
I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't an ulterior motive to the image, Jim, just that it probably didn't appear from whole cloth in Kubrick's mind.

And, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if the various comic creators and the 1910s artist who did the poster also had innuendo on the mind.  Keep in mind the big WWI poster everybody's seen, with the gorilla German carrying off a scantily-clad young woman, after all...
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Offline Yoc

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 04:38:40 PM »
Yes, Dr. Strangelove.
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Offline mr_goldenage (RIP)

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 05:29:41 PM »
Great movie by-the-way a Kubrick classic.

Let us not forget the Greek Gods as inspiration for a lot of the heroes that came up along during the depression.
Keep in mind the scraping together of myths and legends in the creation of these early characters.
Instead of "rip-off" would not proto-type or icon or perhaps the template of what would set the "Standard" for future characters.
And.....where do the Dime novels, Penny Dreafulls and the purple prose of the Pulps figure in if you want to see icons, standards and proto-types.....

JMO

RB @ Work
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Offline profpike

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Re: Character "Borrowing"
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 05:31:05 PM »
The Black Bat was a pretty obvious "inspiration" for Batman.
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