What is wrong with comics today?

[narfstar]

I have pretty much left Marvel and DC behind. I think a lot of old  time fans fall into that category. My LCS only gets what is ordered. Like you I would never get to see a large variety of books if not for digital. Many of the books I buy are because "free" previews. I have posed that bootleg downloads may be a zero sum on paper sales. Between those who find books to buy and those who do not buy because of bootleg. Most however, are downloaded that the individual never would have bough anyway. Not worth it. Nice thing about digital pay sites is that many books can be bought for only a buck each. I am thinking of buying the 4 issues of the Canadian hero The Leaf only a buck each. Four issues for the price of one paper.

[CharlieRock]

Interesting news regarding Comixology the cloud memory digital comic book store: It recently banned, then reversed that ban on a critically acclaimed independent space-opera comic Saga along with over 1,000 books from French publishers. Apparently they were too mature. Saga's ban was reversed but the French comics remain banned.

[paw broon]

" Apparently they were too mature. Saga's ban was reversed but the French comics remain banned." CharlieRock
All the more business for Izneo and other sites.  Does seem odd that comixology would see fit to ban Euro titles when there is so much violence in so many current American titles.  But I think it's not the violence they were concerned about, more the "adult" nature of some Euro G.N.s, which, in many European countries provokes almost no comment. Mind, the new Miss Fury does have a very adult scene and it's not banned. Or is it only certain parts of the anatomy that bother them?  Comics aren't just for children, there's a huge wealth of subject matter and entertainment in them.

[bminor]

Let us go back to the original thought here.
What is wrong with comics today?

1. PRICE - $3 - $4 dollars for 32 pages.

2. PAPER -  Why do we need the expensive high gloss paper?

3. STORIES -  I remember as a kid in the 70's it would take me about 20-30 minutes to read a comic.
                     Nowdays text is very, very sparse.
                     
4. CREATIVITY - Constant retreading of heroes and villains mostly created in the 60's and 70's.
                      It seems that everything is being redone every few years and it get to be pretty
                      dog gone  boring! I frankly am getting sick of it.

5. ADULTS ONLY -  Many of the books out today are written expressly for adults.
                            I would not allow my children to read any of them!
                            I can take just about any book from Marvel or DC in the 60's and not have that fear!
                            Those old books today are still a fun read and enjoyable.

6. ART               As an professional artist (www.minorfineart.com) I feel that much of the art in
                          books today
                         is to busy. Over the top, dark, hard to tell what is going on. Don't get me wrong,
                         the are very talented. But give me a dynamic story drawn by Kane, Ditko, Kirby
                          or Infantino  any day over the cluttered work we have today.


bminor

[paw broon]

Actually, I agree with most of your analysis, bminor. But is that because I'm old and being nostalgic?  Comics, or the comics form, is like books in that there are books for all different ages.  So it is with comics.  It's just that to spread interest in comics and enlarge the market, N. American comics have often substituted big panels, 2 page spreads, lowering, unfriendly heroes in a mistaken attempt to say, " comics are for all ages".  Unfortunately, these " attributes" don't and can't take the place of quality and good entertainment, such as was available decades ago.  I realise that many N. American comic readers want to consider their home market but it's relatively small compared to what's available in other places.  However, the points about price, content, re-treads, while accurate for some/lots of American product, do not apply to other parts of the comics world - and those other parts are quite successful.  Actually, while manga usually use cheaper paper, Euro G.N.s tend to go with glossier but the choice is amazing and the price is fair for the content - pages and story.  I'd love to go back to newsprint and the comics of the G.A. and 50's and 60's. but it's not going to happen to any great extent. And as a previously huge consumer of American comics since the '60's, nowadays I read more new Euro comics than American.   I don't have to put up with posing, mean looking superheroes in pamphlets I can read in 10 minutes because I can read all different sorts of storylines with a wide range of characters, usually well told and drawn.  So, I'll keep on with Mud Man, Rocketeer, Black Bat, Sixth Gun and a few others PLUS some wonderful ideas from outside N. America.
Good discussion, this.

[CharlieRock]

Paw broon, I'm glad someone else is checking out Rocketeer as well. Have you tried the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series?

I cannot agree more with the price of comics today being far too high for far too less. But recently with Shonen Jump dropping print version I have to think that maybe using newsprint, all-ages content, and an anthology themed set-up is just not profitable enough in an American market. I used to be able to go down to my local grocery store (!) and pick up these magazines with over one hundred pages (sometimes two hundred), which included five or six manga 'issues' as well as fan art, news articles regarding the subject, and creator interviews for about a buck more then I got a 32-page floppy single issue of the major comics.

Then they quit making SJ and went to digital-only.

[paw broon]

Not having been a big fan of manga, I have to admit that when we had the comic shop, we sold a lot of SJ and other manga style books.  I'd suggest you check out the digital version as, despite what I said at the start, I've been reading bits and pieces of free manga on my tablet - and enjoying some of it.  I found Codebreaker and like the look of it, so I'm trying other examples.
Right from the start I could never get into TMNT, sorry.  But again, it was very popular and we sold piles of it once upon a time.
So, in turn, can I suggest you have a look at Mud Man? 

[darkmark (RIP)]

I do think that a lot of the market will be replaced by downloads, and the floppies may flat-out die.  But there'll be a market, I think, for collected editions, Archie Digests (which I love), and things like that.  The comic form won't die, and a lot of heroes will survive.  But I think they'll be planed down, and kids will be reading them on their iPads or some such.

[startreksteve]

The comic form won't die, and a lot of heroes will survive. 

They've tried to kill off spidey, and he's still lingering around :-)

[Drahken]

Let us go back to the original thought here.
What is wrong with comics today?

1. PRICE - $3 - $4 dollars for 32 pages.

.....

bminor

^ This would be bad enough if it was all content. What's really infuraiting is that about a third or more of those 32 pages are ads, comic publishers don't seem to grasp the concept that the advertisers are supposed to pay for the ads, not the customers.

[darkmark (RIP)]

To parody an old British joke, they're oversexed, they're overpriced, and they're over here!

[Roygbiv666]

Maybe that's because advertisers aren't paying much.

^ This would be bad enough if it was all content. What's really infuraiting is that about a third or more of those 32 pages are ads, comic publishers don't seem to grasp the concept that the advertisers are supposed to pay for the ads, not the customers.

[KevinP]

There are a few comics that are still fun reads. I get CAPTAIN MARVEL, WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN and NOVA.  That is, they're fun until they cross into some massive event crossover, like WOLVERINE AND THE X_MEN with A VS X and CAPTAIN MARVEL with AVENGERS: THE ENEMY WITHIN, and now the brand new NOVA with something called "Infinity."

But I just read NOVA #3 and discovered something new. "When you see this (AR), open up the MARVEL AR APP (available on applicable Apople (R) iOS or Android (tm) devices and use your camera-enabled device to unlock extra-special exclusive features."

(AR) appears twice in this issue: once, when it becomes obvious that The Watcher knows more than he is showing Nova, and again when Nova's mom is reprimanding him in Spanish.  The latter could be a mere translation (which used to be provided in the comic!) or it could contain backstory about Nova's dad, who was a Black Nova.

It other words, Marvel is telling me that for my $3.99 I am not even getting the whole story!

[John C]

Maybe that's because advertisers aren't paying much.

For context, here are sales numbers:
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2013/2013-03.html

The top seven titles command a whopping six-figure audience.  Of even that audience (which would be dwarfed by the audience you can access with the cheapest ad slots at your local TV station), a good percentage never opens the book and another chunk consists of middle-aged men who complain about how expensive the book is and how most of it's advertising, and so probably aren't swayed by the ads.

Successful business people might be better candidates to chime in, here, but I can't imagine an audience like that being worth much money to contact.

Of course, that's a vicious cycle:  Worse/less content reduces the audience, which reduces the chances to fund/produce better content.

[darkmark (RIP)]

Most of us aren't the target audience.  We'd be better off asking some twentysomethings what they want to read.