International Comics topic

[paw broon]

@Paw: Back to the 1940s, I have to read the strip you linked. Do you know if there is some list of british comics dealing with WW2, nazism, national socialisms, et al (either in satire or serious stories)?
[/quote]
No, there isn't a list as such but there were so many that it would be difficult to compile.  Everything from Oor Wullie in the Sunday Post via Giles to all those titles and more that I listed above.  Most of the anthology story-papers and comics had war stories, The Victor mentioned above being a prime example and there was Battle Picture Library; War Picture Library; Air ace Picture Library; Battler Britton et al.
More Victor covers here:-
http://www.kellyscomics.com/victor-comics.php
This whole site has many D.C. Thomson covers and is worth a look anyway.
Just found this article:- www.sussex.ac.uk/history/documents/ems
Extremely interesting.  I hope it's of some use to you.
And here is more Giles, this time during W.W.2 :- http://www.cartoons.ac.uk/collections/CG/1/1/1

With my shiny new computer up and running, I'm dismayed to find that my scanner/printer doesn't seem to be compatible with it.  Typical.  More expense. I'm trying to scan an Oor Wullie page from 1939 which makes fun of Hitler.  I'll keep trying.

[watson387]

paw broom: Before you scrap it and buy new, make sure to check your scanner manufacturer's web page for new software, drivers, etc. Don't trust Microsoft/Apple/Linux to find them for you because usually they fail miserably.

[paw broon]

"Before you scrap it and buy new, make sure to check your scanner manufacturer's web page for new software, drivers, etc. Don't trust Microsoft/Apple/Linux to find them for you because usually they fail miserably. Wink" watson387
Thanks.  I tried the website and found drivers but I still can't access the scan function as previously despite reloading the Epson disk. But I can scan.  Don't ask 'cos I don't know.
So, I'm going to try to post an Oor Wullie page here.  If it's wrong size - too big, could a mod. please either resize it or delete it.  Not very good at this.

"@Paw: Back to the 1940s, I have to read the strip you linked. Do you know if there is some list of british comics dealing with WW2, nazism, national socialisms, et al (either in satire or serious stories)?"  vaillant
Vaillant and anyone else who's interested, here's an Oor Wullie page from 1939 which makes fun of Hitler.  The text is written in broad Scots so you might not get much from the script.

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/masquerouge/OorWullieHitler001644x800.jpg

[vaillant]

It's mostly nostalgia, let's be frank.
What one "discovers" in his youth, will stay with him forever.
And will be glorified.
I doubt that modern youth will take a liking to those (often crudely drawn) golden age classics.
Even I don't. That's why I start with the 50s.
EC rules. Hehe.

Hi tilliban. May be to some degree (surely not in its entirety otherwise you’d deny any value to criticism, which nonetlehess is inherent and can’t be honestly avoided, even when we are speaking of "taste"), but then we must see what "nostalgia" actually is. It’s never have been clear to me. Nostalgia may simply be one of the strongest indicators of something pointing deep within the human earth.

Now, you are telling me you read EC comics as a kid in Germany? I wasn’t aware of such publications.
Now, I have never liked EC in particular, but it took very little for me to become thoroughly fascinated with the golden age. And this has obviously nothing to do with nostalgia as you seemed to intend when you spoke, because it would plainly stop to Marvel's early silver age.

There is also another consideration, and this comes from temperament. I think I am more fascinated by drama than comedy, while I see you are a comical actor (if I get it right from your site). Now, it's not that comedy has to map out tragedy or vice-versa, but it's undeniable there is a basic appreciation of a story in one of the two keys, be it adventurous or not.
Personally, I truly enjoy comical aspects in a dramatic, even highly dramatic story, but I am not so attracted to horror "per se".

There is a very interesting study (I recall) published by a french magazine in the 1990s which looked at Kirby’s "Fourth World" applying to it the two aspects of comedy and tragedy as they were in ancient greece. Maybe he jumps to partially arbitrary conclusions, but I recall it’s very interesting, and it helped me appreciate the stories, as I read a good part of them afterwards.
This also reminds me that there aren’t just "female furies" or Big Barda on New Genesis and Apokolips, but also Bekka, and definitely charming female plain human characters (not to mention Beautiful Dreamer). I say this for narf.

@Paw: Many thanks for all the references and information: I’ll have to delve into it, now.
In fact, broad scots doesn’t seem exaggeratedly difficult, well not more than american slang anyway…

[narfstar]

It is funny that I did not like Kirby's big women but in real life I prefer some meat on the bone  But to me Kirby's women looked like weigh lifters and I do not like that look on women. But I do not like the size 2 women as much as the size 10-14 which are more huggable and soft like women should be.

[vaillant]

It is funny that I did not like Kirby's big women but in real life I prefer some meat on the bone  But to me Kirby's women looked like weigh lifters and I do not like that look on women. But I do not like the size 2 women as much as the size 10-14 which are more huggable and soft like women should be.

Oh, but I think I understand what you mean by disliking those 4th world female characters. Jack in the 1970s tended to portrait a number of female characters as "warrior women", and with an inker like Mike Royer, excellent but without the gentleness of Sinnott, they looked a little like "barbarians".
However, if you look closely, I think skinner female characters, or more gracious ones (like the Beautiful Dreamer) show the same variety that Kirby’s drawing style used to have in the 1940s and 1950s. I think in the 1970s it depended a lot on the inker.
Demon, however, is beautifully drawn.

[paw broon]

Nostalgia, HUH? This is always an interesting topic and one that occasionally comes up at comic marts here.  Despite getting on a bit, I had virtually no exposure to G.A. comics, or American comics, growing up, yet I'm a fan.  Nor did I know anything about the wealth of European material that I have been discovering over the last 25 - 30 years, so I'm not hankering after something I knew as a child.  I am nostalgic for steam trains, etc.   And as for the art in old comics, from various countries, a lot of it is of a very high standard.  High quality art and illustration didn't just start with EC.  Like vaillant, I never got into EC, it was too early for me anyway and the reprints did little for me, despite the quality of the art.
Without going into my taste in women, there are artists other than Kirby who render more physically attractive and/or striking, female characters.  Alex Raymond; D.J.van Exter with Rikki Visser; Lou Fine; Eisner; Frank Robbins; Jack Cole; Don Lawrence; Jim Holdaway with Modesty Blaise; (and this could just be me but) Frank Hampson's Professor Peabody from Dan Dare. These are just the first ones that come to mind and there are many more examples.  Plus all the more modern guys.
I've always loved the look of Kathy Kane in the Batwoman costume - and that is nostalgia.

[narfstar]

My true nostalgia is SA and many particular comics from many publishers produce an affect on me. What excitement I have for the GA comes from annual JLA/JSA then Fantasy Masterpieces at Marvel.

[tilliban]

Nicely put and well observed, vaillant.
I am a comical person and love any kind of comedy.
And EC offers a lot of comedy – even in its horror titles.
As a kid, I got started on MAD (German version) and as an adolescent I could indeed get my hands on first reprints of US-American ECs like those from East Coast Comix and that fabulous Nostalgia Press compendium “The EC Horror Library”.
So the franco-belgian albums and EC are my two comics “legs” I stand on.

@paw broon: MODESTY BLAISE is a very cool and surely underrated comic strip! Thanks for reminding us..

[vaillant]

To add to the "nostalgia" question: as a child I use to daydream on how it could have been the childhood of my own parents. This led, later on, to my collecting of late 1930s Disney publications (which my parents never read since they were too expensive when they were kids).

I am a comical person and love any kind of comedy.

You’d love Jacovitti. Seriously. It may be that something has been published in Germany, but I assure you that Jacovitti’s scope of work as a whole is something amazing. And I am not particularly a fan of him, rather of Sebastiano Craveri (who was among the responsibles in introducing 16 years old Jacovitti to the publisher), one of the three "big authors" on which Il Vittorioso has been built. They were called "the three Cs": Caesar (author of Romano il legionario, as I said elsewhere, the fascist equivalent of US-airborne 1940s heroes), Caprioli (although neglected by criticism he influenced a great deal of artists, including Milo Manara) and Craveri (his Zoo family was a genuinely italian alternative to the Disney antropomorphic animals).
It would be great to arrive, at some point, to present something of Jacovitti in English language. I’d love to work on that. There are others, of course, but Jacovitti was already amazing slight afterwards the War.

Without going into my taste in women, there are artists other than Kirby who render more physically attractive and/or striking, female characters. Alex Raymond; D.J.van Exter with Rikki Visser; Lou Fine; Eisner; Frank Robbins; Jack Cole; Don Lawrence; Jim Holdaway with Modesty Blaise;

Of course, but Jack shouldn’t be dismissed, not before reading *all* of his output…
Raymond has been a huge influence on Caesar. In fact, in Romano il legionario he’s extremely "Raymondesque", although it retains his uniqueness.

(and this could just be me but) Frank Hampson's Professor Peabody from Dan Dare.

Oh no, it’s not just you.
Besides, the way the virgin Mary is portrayed in "The Road of Courage" is breathtaking. Also Judas, Hampson goes deep with him: you can almost grasp his inner tragedy, the overwhelming darkness of temptation as he gets out in the open, after the last supper. The only "weak" characterization – unthinkable but true – seems to be precisely the Lord himself. Hampson’s Jesus seems a pale, generic, good looking character. This is the strangest element of the whole story as well, but I guess it has a lot to do with the personal involvement of the authors, and their own experience of christianity. I have a few Eagle issues, I’d like to collect the whole run but they are not easy to find, and right now I have priorities with the italian and comic book stuff.

Ah, and Lou Fine is nothing short of AMAZING. And I mean it.

[vaillant]

And now I have a Craveri avatar. 
It’s "Porcellino" (Piggy) from the Zoo family.

[Yoc]

Cute avatar V

[paw broon]

All that about beautiful/striking female characters set me thinking, oddly enough, and I want to add, Eva Kant, Diabolik's classy, beautiful, and sometimes deadly, partner.
One your never likely to see and a lady detective I like - Lesley Shane.  Her adventures appeared in Super Detective Library and here's a cover:-
http://www.bookpalace.com/PicLibs/SDPL/PAGES/SDL092.HTM
How could I have not mentioned Diana Palmer as drawn by Ray Moore or Wilson McCoy or Sy Barry.

[JVJ (RIP)]

I am a comical person and love any kind of comedy.

You’d love Jacovitti. Seriously. It may be that something has been published in Germany, but I assure you that Jacovitti’s scope of work as a whole is something amazing.

It would be great to arrive, at some point, to present something of Jacovitti in English language. I’d love to work on that. There are others, of course, but Jacovitti was already amazing slight afterwards the War.

I'll second the recommendation of Jacovitti, Tillmann, and suggest also Mordillo - another Italian master, IMHO.

Have you finalized your Paris trip? I'll show you a big book of Mordillo when you get here.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[vaillant]

I'll second the recommendation of Jacovitti, Tillmann, and suggest also Mordillo - another Italian master, IMHO.
Have you finalized your Paris trip? I'll show you a big book of Mordillo when you get here.
Peace, Jim (|:{>

Coming from you, JVJ, this is a "senior recommendation".  
Well, Mordillo is more a humorist, I would classify him with Gary Larson (his surreal humour in "The Far Side") rather than with a true storyteller as Jacovitti has been.
Have you ever read some 1940s Jacovitti? It’s my favorite, up to 1948. His first story, "Pippo e gli inglesi" was a satire against the British army, and written and drawn when he was 16. Almost unrecognizable by someone accustomed to his 1960-70s mature style, but the characters (a "kid gang", as I said previously) had a freshness which was absent as his mature style had crystallized.
Cover of the first reprint in comic-book form, courtesy of Vintage Comics forum users (original story run on "Il Vittorioso" in 1941):