General Category > Comic Related Discussion
Archie goes digital with 'New Crusaders'
Roygbiv666:
Nice overview on the whole thing, John. Thanks.
--- Quote from: John C on October 15, 2011, 12:56:19 PM ---Especially since they're so new (and judging by a lot of things, new to pretty much everything about the digital business), it'd probably be a good idea for interested parties to drop them a constructive line listing problems they see. Having been on the other side, I know there's a world of difference between the frustrated employee saying there's a better way to do things and a bunch of e-mails suggesting there's more money to be made if things are improved.
I think "I can't commit to a subscription without any idea of what I'm getting for it" goes a pretty long way.
--- End quote ---
dhfh:
I finally have a few minutes to comment on all this, so here goes:
First off, the model intended for distribution is, as previously stated $3 to $4 a month for access to the site, not a single title. But the 6 page "issue" is supposed to be for a WEEKLY comic. So, that would mean 4 issues per month of 6 pages each or about the same as a normal 24 page monthy comic. It's all spelled out in this interview:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/archie-red-circle-digital-111012.html
Now as far as my opinions go on the actual relaunching ... well, in short, I'm not super enthusiastic about these plans. Basically I have 3 main reactions to this.
Point 1: Archie seems to be using this as a way to test the waters/jump into digital-only distribution. This brought on a serious case of deja vu for me. For those who don't know: back in the early 1980's Archie wanted to test the waters/jump into a new distribution method called "direct marketing" and they decided the best thing to do was to bring their old superheroes out of mothballs. I really liked theses characters and thought the idea was great. But ultimately it proved to be a disaster. From the beginning the new line of comics showed signs of poor management and symptoms of office politics going on behind the scenes. Later on, after it was all over, these "rumors" turned out to be mostly true and the main cause for the audience's interest dwindling to unsustainable levels. (Examples of the kinds of problems that resulted are: different editors going in their own directions, late books causing sudden reprint issues to take their place, and things like multiple origins for the same character coming from different writers.)
Point 2: While the concept of new characters picking up the mantle of the old is a good, servicable way of re-introducing the superhero line, it's hardly a "new revolutionary way" to do it. Also, it can often be handled in a blatantly contrived way that makes even new readers think "OK, this is just to start the ball rolling." As a launching method, I think it's potentially a mark against the line. Assuming that it seems to be a contrived plot to start the story, readers can easily end up finding the (re-)launch to be lackluster and decide there is no point in continuing to read further. I'll be incredibly impressed if they can pull off a non-contrived start to the plot line in only 6 pages. As described, the premise already sounds contrived, but hopefully that won't turn people off and everyone will wait and see.
As for how new this launching method is, it or a variant has been used by at least DC's Infinity, Inc.; Dynamite's Project: Superpowers; and AC Comic's Femforce. And most interesting, another feeling of deja vu came to me when reading the premise: In the 1990's DC comics decided they would try to re-enter the newstand distribution market by licensing Archie's superhero line to creat the !mpact imprint. The Premise of the !mpact line: after decades without any superheroes (save one) being around, a new batch of superheroes appear! They even had a storyline where an old Shield mentors the new one.
Point 3: Looking at the artwork doesn't make me think that this new incarnation of the superhero line is going to be a serious treatment. By that I mean, I think the artwork conveys a more light-hearted 1960's Batman tone than the tone found in 1940's MLJ versions of these characters. This will not make me as interested in the stories as much as more dynamic, realistic-looking artwork would. On the other hand, if the stories are like in "Batman: the Animated Series" I'd like the comic in spite of the artwork. (I, for one, am quite sick of the B. Timm school of artwork/animation for a subject with a serious tone rather than a caricature, as I've always regarded it as a somewhat polished version of the artistic level of an average 5 to 6 year old.) It seems that the chances it could be serious instead of silly are even slimmer, however, if the statement "He compared the tone of the series to popular Pixar animated movie, The Incredibles" is valid. And it's re-enforced by the fact that they gave the writing task to the guy famous for his work penning their Sonic the Hedgehog comic (which, strangely enough, already yukked up The Shield in its pages). Also, as described so far, the concept of all the superheroes retiring to a community called "Red Circle" having "won their battle against evil" and then being nearly wiped out by the enemies that aren't supposed to be around anymore doesn't sound to me like great storytelling. (I also don't like the Red Circle in-joke.)
I mean if you've won your battle, how do you end up being wiped out by the losers? If the losers have escaped the prison or whatever that insured there are winners, shouldn't the winners be smart enough to realize it's time to dust off there costumes? Even a casual read of the MLJ line here on the DCM will show that these characters are at least as vigilant as the next superhero. And unless the supervillians have had some hidden way of getting back in shape to take on the aging Shield et al, shouldn't they be just as out of practice as the superheroes are? Or is it supposed to be that the villains' kids are following in their footsteps? (Ugg.)
So there's make take on this. I just can't get over how much this seems like Archie's standard business model with respect to it's great superheroes of the past, except that this time around it looks like it may not even be as serious as the Silver Age incarnation was.
DHFH
Yoc:
Hi DHFH,
Thanks for your post.
You've recapped their failed reboots in the 80s and 90s nicely. I'm more a fan of the Timm school and think there is a possible niche for semi-serious, less grim heroes out there. The Incredibles was my favourite movie that year and is still #1 computer animated movie ever. It was what they should have made the lame Fantastic Four movies more like. Superheroes and animation were made for each other IMO.
One hopes they've got their central idea put together and can create a more kid friendly but still dramatic use of their old heroes. I agree the premise isn't anything special but we are only hearing the broad strokes and who knows, maybe the details will surprise us. Not likely but hey, I recall the first two episodes of 'The Justice League' cartoon being very underwhelming and it turned into one of the best animated superhero cartoon shows ever. Again just IMO.
As for the site - John and I both think they need to tell people what issues are available for reading so we can make an informed decision to subscribe or not. Just splashing the Archie name on the site doesn't tell me enough.
I wish them well, these heroes were among my first exposure to the goldenage and I have a special place for them in my heart. Archie is the only publisher still trying to appeal to a youth market and possibly create the next generation of readers. If they can grow their company it can only be good for monthly comics as a format which seemingly is on its last legs. I just hope they treat their heroes with respect and don't write down to their readers.
I'm enjoying this thread. I'm glad I started it. :)
John C:
My real hope is that the origin they're talking about is something that'll happen in six pages and never be mentioned again. Origins, frankly, are boring, and I don't know why writers keep going back to them as if their take on Krypton exploding is going to blow me away.
Art-wise, I'm not excited, but comic art today is largely trash, and the key for me is whether it can tell the story, not look pretty. On the other hand, fingers crossed, because the design reminds me a bit of the late Mike Parobeck. And if they're looking to target the tone of the early !mpact books (before DC top brass stepped in and knocked its legs out from under it), this could be a real treat.
The weekly schedule takes some of the nuisance out of the "six page" deal. Hopefully, they'll write stories that suit it, rather than drag stories across infinite six-page installments.
Overall, I still think it has potential. The sins of the past are hopefully on their mind as things to avoid, and it's worth keeping in mind that these aren't the same people (and of them, right?) who botched the Red Circle or !mpact.
Yoc:
Posted on AC Comics is Mark Heike recounting a failed proposal to Archie....
http://www.accomics.com/?p=6941
See the last 3rd for the proposal info.
-Yoc
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