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Roygbiv666:
--- Quote from: Drusilla lives! on September 21, 2010, 06:09:04 PM ---Every time I read this stuff about trademarks, copyrights and lawyers, with regard to comics and comic book characters I wonder why I ever liked them in the first place (comics and comic book characters, that is). :)
It just reminds me of how they really are used for one purpose only, to suck money out of young children's pockets (or to be more specific their parent's pockets)... it's a real joy killer if you ask me... although I can understand the reasoning for it being the topic of discussion here on this site.
--- End quote ---
You enjoyed reading them and therefore valued them enough to pay for them. And someone else provided you with the means of your enjoyment and got paid for it. I don't see the problem. :-)
Drusilla lives!:
I like comic books... imo there's a lot of great art (that I truly love) that was done, and some wonderful stories and concepts put forth in them as well... but I don't like what I've learned about the business side of comic books. It was at times (and probably still is to some extent) a filthy and even disgraceful business... although perhaps not as bad as some.
And with regard to this whole issue with GA characters... although I can sympathize with the families of these long gone artists and writers... I can't help but feel that in many instances that sympathy is misplaced somewhat, after all, to me it does seem at times that they're really just looking to grab a piece of the pie. If money wasn't involved how many would REALLY care about their long lost relative twice removed? How many times would they go and visit their grave or light a candle for them? No, I have a greater sympathy for the artists and writers themselves, the ones who WERE screwed, money-wise. Not a bunch of great great grand kids looking to live off something created long ago into perpetuity... and in many ways, perhaps this goes for anyone else who has nothing to add, but nevertheless profits on these works (DC and Marvel included, because imo I really don't think what they're doing lately is "adding" anything positive to the existing body of work). The only thing that should be remembered is the artist and his work... and ultimately that IS the recompense to any true "artist" for his or her work... the work of any artist ultimately is (or should be) a labor of love.
bchat:
--- Quote from: Drusilla lives! on September 22, 2010, 10:14:45 AM ---I like comic books... imo there's a lot of great art (that I truly love) that was done, and some wonderful stories and concepts put forth in them as well... but I don't like what I've learned about the business side of comic books. It was at times (and probably still is to some extent) a filthy and even disgraceful business... although perhaps not as bad as some.
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Knowing how complicated Copyrights & Trademarks can be at times gives me a greater appreciation for something that is somewhat original that's created in today's world. Hearing so many people complain about Copyright & Trademark Laws and how they restrict creativity, it's nice to see some people get past that line of thinking and actually BE creative. The "business side of comic books" is, for me, neither here nor there when it comes to sitting down and reading them. Knowing Marvel owns the Trademark on "Captain Marvel" doesn't make an issue of "Shazam!" any better or worse than it is on its own, and DC owning the TM on "Blue Beetle" doesn't make their take on the character any better, either. "It is what it is".
--- Quote ---No, I have a greater sympathy for the artists and writers themselves, the ones who WERE screwed, money-wise. Not a bunch of great great grand kids looking to live off something created long ago into perpetuity...
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I can't agree with the sentiments of that last sentence. I'm sure someone like Jack Kirby, being family-oriented, would be thrilled to know that his grandkids can make money off the work he created and owned himself. I'm sure that there are plenty of creative people who own their own work that have looked back on their careers/lives and smiled knowing that they have "provided for their families" for years to come. I mean, all the money that those Golden Age creators "missed-out on" ... what do you think would have eventually happened to that money had they gotten their "fair share"? My guess is that a good portion of it would have gone to their children & grandchildren after they passed away.
Drusilla lives!:
--- Quote from: bchat on September 22, 2010, 11:50:01 AM ---...
--- Quote ---No, I have a greater sympathy for the artists and writers themselves, the ones who WERE screwed, money-wise. Not a bunch of great great grand kids looking to live off something created long ago into perpetuity...
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I can't agree with the sentiments of that last sentence. I'm sure someone like Jack Kirby, being family-oriented, would be thrilled to know that his grandkids can make money off the work he created and owned himself. I'm sure that there are plenty of creative people who own their own work that have looked back on their careers/lives and smiled knowing that they have "provided for their families" for years to come. I mean, all the money that those Golden Age creators "missed-out on" ... what do you think would have eventually happened to that money had they gotten their "fair share"? My guess is that a good portion of it would have gone to their children & grandchildren after they passed away.
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I love Kirby and his work... but honestly... I really feel he should have sued everyone's asses off back in the day. I'm talking about the late 60s, when he left Marvel. That was the time to make a legal move IMO... did he really think things would get better in time?
Well, whatever the reason he did what he did (perhaps because he loved the work, not the money), he's a perfect example of my original point... the business side of comics was a filthy, cutthroat one. What more proof does one need than his story... a poor, but talented kid who went to work in the comic book sweatshops at a young age, worked his fingers down to the bone (and in the end, even lost his eyesight in one eye) creating and co-creating some of the most memorable characters of all time, at one point practically reviving the entire industry, and what does he get? He gets a fraction of what he was due monetarily IMO. And if they could do that to him, an industry leader worth his weight in gold, a true insider (practically family to some of these people really) what chance did anyone else have?
Well, I guess I've given myself the best answer to why I hate hearing about copyrights, trademarks and lawyers in regard to comics... it reminds me that they were a product of slave labor (to a certain extent).
bchat:
--- Quote from: Drusilla lives! on September 22, 2010, 10:14:45 AM ---If money wasn't involved how many would REALLY care about their long lost relative twice removed? How many times would they go and visit their grave or light a candle for them?"
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In my opinion, if money wasn't involved, how many creators would care about not having ownership of their characters? Does Joe Simon care about not owning "Ranch Dude"? Did Paul Gustavson ever say "I wish I would have hung-on to Twister"? Has Martin Filchock ever said that he wished he had self-published all his superhero stories instead of selling them to Hardie & Kelly? Did Siegel & Shuster ever fight to get ownership of Dr Occult back?
In every other business, when you're working for someone else, you accept that an idea you come-up with & the work that you do that helps the company make money (or save money, depending on the idea) are only going to benefit the owners in the long-run. It's a part of the job you accept when you take a paycheck. When a comic creator works for a publisher, they're also working a job, and creating new characters for that company is a part of the job sometimes. Sometimes a publisher gets lucky and they have a character that will make them millions of dollars, but more often than not they get a character that nobody (including the creators) cares about. If a creator can't accept that something they did is making a lot of money for someone else, "that's a shame" but that's the job they chose to do in order to make a living. They got paid more money than most people made (no matter what year you're talking about) to do nothing but draw all day, so I can't really feel too bad for them.
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