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Author Topic: scan size  (Read 14808 times)

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Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: scan size
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2010, 04:51:09 PM »
I understand that the  digital technology you mentioned that emulates black ink on white paper
is the e-ink used in  ebook readers. I own one of these readers and the background is not white,
but GRAY.

As Jim points out (thus forcing a rewrite on my part), the state of the art is gray, but the goal is not.

However, there's a not-so-subtle difference between e-paper (and real paper) and computer screens:  The contrast on screens is painful (though necessary), because the lighter parts are actively lit, whereas e-paper (and wood-pulp and similar technologies) diffuse reflective light.  That's why it's easy to spend hours or days reading a book or a magazine, but reading the same material off a monitor causes serious fatigue and burnout.

I wouldn't necessarily correlate scan de-papering with the research going into making better plastic paper, in other words, unless the scan's destination is a paper-like (not backlit) screen.

Good point, John,
the e-paper goal is reflective and all scans (unless used in printed form) are going to be seen with projected light. I'm not one who spends a lot of time READING scans, so my experiences with long exposure to them is minimal. I can't comment on the effect of the page color on prolonged viewing with any first-hand knowledge. I'll take your and citaltras' word for it.

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Re: scan size
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2010, 04:51:09 PM »

Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: scan size
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2010, 05:28:12 PM »
The problem I personally have with color correction is that someone is making a choice of what they THINK the page should look like, as opposed to accurately depicting what the page DID look like when the book was new.  Regardless of whether or not a choice in color correction is better or worse, the images would not accurately reflect how they looked when they were printed because a person is just guessing that they're getting close unless they have a Near-Mint copy right next to them for comparison (and odds are that with Golden Age books, that simply isn't happening).

Even IF everyone had the perfect copy to scan and refer to, bchat, we're still dealing with quality of the scanners involved. I have three scanners: an HP and two Epsons. I bought my first Epson, a 15000 with a 11½"x17½" scanning bed, and planned on retiring my HP 7400C, but then I found that the HP did a much better job of capturing high resolution line art that I was scanning at 1600 ppi. The HP was rated at 2400 ppi (optical resolution) while the Espon GT-15000 was only 600 x 1200 ppi optical - though it did interpolation up to 9600 x 9600 ppi. I discovered that the "interpolation" wasn't all it was cracked up to be and kept the HP up and running. It's since been replaced by an Epson V500 with native 6400 x 6400 optical. Works great.

But the lens quality, optical resolution and, it must be stated, the skills of the scanner all come into play in your "accurately reflect how they looked when they were printed" criteria. Add to that the individual skills in assessing how closely your monitor image reflects the comic, and how well calibrated your monitor is, etc. ad infinitum and it's nearly impossible to be anything BUT subjective about ANY scanned comics page. So having access to the raw scans with ZERO interference and "fixing" is, as you say below, the best alternative.

Quote
As far as I'm concerned, the less changes that someone makes to a scanned page, the better.  If I don't like what I see, I can always change it myself to suit my tastes ... and that's what's really being talked about regarding color correction: personal taste.  What someone else thinks looks excellent might look like garbage to me or someone else.  So, as far as I'm concerned, take the guess-work out & focus on preserving the books as they are for future generations, allowing them the choice to "fix" whatever they want in any way they prefer.

When it comes to scanning pulps, I agree with Citaltris about leaving the page-color alone.  If someone thinks that there is no value in the pages themselves, then why bother scanning them at all?  Why not just type the stories into the computer and eliminate the risk of destroying the book altogether?

I know I'm a minority of one here, too, but as far as I am concerned, the text is all that has ANY value in a pulp page - with the exception of any illustrations (it goes without saying). YES, type the damn things into the computer or let The Gutenberg Project OCR them. I am seriously bemused as to why people are taken with page-color in comics, but when you bring pulps into the discussion, bemused becomes seriously bewildered. Sorry, but there is something about being attracted to the LOOK of old paper that I just don't GET. I didn't grow up with them nor did I collect them or read them as a kid, so any nostalgia I'd be "feeling" would be contrived and wishful thinking. I guess I'm too much of a pragmatic realist. If I wanted to read a story, why would I care what medium it first appeared in? ???? I SO don't get it.

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Offline JVJ (RIP)

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Re: scan size
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2010, 05:39:42 PM »
p.s. - fascinating discussion on rotation and sharpening.  I wish my ability to struggle with getting the piece flat on the platen didn't leave me with disturbing degrees of angularity.  But a contributing factor is the fact that many print jobs leave the image askew on the page (I don't know if it was the guy printing or the guy cropping, but ONE of them screwed up).

I do not use software sharpening as I doesn't suit my eye.  I should compare a rotated vs. a non-rotated image side-by-side to see firsthand the loss of sharpness.
What I do with other people's comics, bb,
is close the scanner lid on the comic BUT insert a pencil or a sharpie between the lid and the bed so it doesn't close all the way. This applies, to my sensibilities, the perfect amount of "pressure" on the spine of the comic without stressing it. Perhaps in some cases another item (a block eraser, a CD or DVD case?) might be more appropriate, but you get the idea.

To most easily compare a rotated/non-rotated scan, do one version aligned on the bed and another at a slight angle. Then rotate the second scan to be aligned. Drag the rotated scan into the aligned Photoshop file. It will come in as a separate layer. Turn the opacity of the added layer down and position the two images so that they perfectly align. Then turn the opacity back to 100% and turn the top layer on and off (click the eyeball next to it in the Layers Panel) and you'll easily see what the rotation has changed.

LMK what you see.

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Offline Kevin Yong

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Re: scan size
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2010, 12:11:10 AM »
But the lens quality, optical resolution and, it must be stated, the skills of the scanner all come into play in your "accurately reflect how they looked when they were printed" criteria. Add to that the individual skills in assessing how closely your monitor image reflects the comic, and how well calibrated your monitor is, etc. ad infinitum and it's nearly impossible to be anything BUT subjective about ANY scanned comics page. So having access to the raw scans with ZERO interference and "fixing" is, as you say below, the best alternative.

I just wanted to chime in and say how much I'm enjoying the technical discussion of people's different approaches to scanning. I've worked in the print industry specializing in digital prepress as my day job. This conversation has not only been interesting for me, it also has useful tips that I might be able to apply in other areas of my digital work.  :)

-- Kevin Yong

PS -- I want to echo the advice to keep a "raw" scan of any images for archiving, separate from any cleanups or edits applied in Photoshop. Once you start tweaking the underlying pixels, you can never get that original data back. You never know when you might have a reason to go back and rework the edits, or apply a different tool in a later version of the software, without going back and starting over from scratch with a new scan.

Offline maxpaayne

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Re: scan size
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2011, 05:12:30 PM »
Yes, you are right. The higher your screen resolution is, the smaller the scans become. This is like one rule of graphics. It depends upon the pixels of the monitor. Resolution is one of the important part of the graphics.

Offline rangerhouse

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Re: scan size
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
Hello, Jim we haven't met Just wanted to say that I love your comment below..   Thanks rangerhouse

Sorry, but there is something about being attracted to the LOOK of old paper that I just don't GET IT


But the lens quality, optical resolution and, it must be stated, the skills of the scanner all come into play in your "accurately reflect how they looked when they were printed" criteria. Add to that the individual skills in assessing how closely your monitor image reflects the comic, and how well calibrated your monitor is, etc. ad infinitum and it's nearly impossible to be anything BUT subjective about ANY scanned comics page. So having access to the raw scans with ZERO interference and "fixing" is, as you say below, the best alternative.

I just wanted to chime in and say how much I'm enjoying the technical discussion of people's different approaches to scanning. I've worked in the print industry specializing in digital prepress as my day job. This conversation has not only been interesting for me, it also has useful tips that I might be able to apply in other areas of my digital work.  :)

-- Kevin Yong

PS -- I want to echo the advice to keep a "raw" scan of any images for archiving, separate from any cleanups or edits applied in Photoshop. Once you start tweaking the underlying pixels, you can never get that original data back. You never know when you might have a reason to go back and rework the edits, or apply a different tool in a later version of the software, without going back and starting over from scratch with a new scan.