Coming Soon: Fox Giants

[OtherEric]

I already mentioned this several months ago back on GAC, but I've got several Fox Giants to scan and post, and they're next on my pile once I get through the 100 Page Wyatt Earp from Charlton.  I just wanted to preview and discuss the first of the giants, it will hopefully start getting posted next week, if not even late this week.  (The individual books will be going up as individual books, as well as the giant as a whole.)

I'm starting with the 1948 issue of Almanac of Crime.  I actually took apart my copy to scan it easier and to check something.  This issue is not assembled from remaindered books; in fact none of the component issues have been stapled in the normal fashion.  There are only the big staples through the whole book.  I suspect the contents are identical in all copies; not just because it's not remainders but because I've seen several sources mention the Phantom Lady issue, and at least a couple specify it as #19.  (Unlike the other three issues, I will not be posting the PL 19 as a separate issue; we've got a better copy on the way.  I WILL be scanning it new since I know there's an effort to put together a "best unedited" copy from the various off-register scans we have.)

In addition to the PL 19, this issue starts with a 16 page signature that's not taken from any other single issue.  It reprints Cattle Kate from Women Outlaws #1, this story was used in Seduction of the Innocent.  It then has Kiss of Death Kate, reprinted from Western True Crime #15 (#1), and a one-page story from Women Outlaws #1 again.

The four books in this one are Jo-Jo 20, Western Thrillers 2, Phantom Lady 19, and Famous Crimes 3.  The Famous Crimes #3 also is mentioned in SOTI.  Since two SOTI issues/ stories show up I wonder if this was the book Wertham actually saw, rather than the two separate issues.  Other than the PL none of them have been scanned that I know of.

Anyway, that's coming very soon now.  I think I've actually turned up some new information about this particular book above, although it may have been previously discovered.  It's always neat to figure out new things about old comics, though!

[Yoc]

Very interesting info there Eric.
Now if these annuals aren't remainder books one has to wonder what the reasoning behind them is.

-Yoc

[OtherEric]

Most of the Fox Giants are remaindered books, Yoc.  It's just the 1948 Almanac of Crime that isn't that I know of.  I think it's one of the first- if not THE first- Fox Giant.  So I suspect in this case it was put out as a test of the format, to see if it was worth the effort to deal with the remaindered or leftover books instead of just trashing them.  That's a pure guess, though.

The other two Giants I have are remaindered books, or at the very least a) there's alternate documented contents, and b) the component books have been stapled normally in addition to the staples through the whole thing.

[OtherEric]

Just realized something else about the book:  While the contents were apparently always intended for the book rather than remainders, as explained above, it's fairly clear that the sub-books were still printed separately, apparently with the normal runs of the book. Two ways to tell that:  1) Ad pages repeat.  I can't imagine Fox NOT selling those separately if he was printing them as a separate run.  2)  The paper is slightly different from issue to issue.  The browning at the bottom varies from issue to issue, and each seems to have its own level of brittleness.  The new material section at the front was moderate, the Jo-Jo was pretty bad, and the Western Thrillers is pretty supple, all things considered.  (There are other slight differences I can't quite define but that are clear to me when I'm holding & looking at the book in person.)

[Poztron]

Just a reality check on terminology. Is "remaindered" the right term to describe these component comics? In book publishing, remaindered books are books that have been sold off cheaply by a publisher (or perhaps distributor) to clear inventory. I suspect that these giant comics were either composed of "returns" (i.e., copies returned unsold by distributors) or perhaps copies that never made it to distributors or newsstands in the first place.

There was definitely a sleazy grey-market of comics (Charltons in particular) that had been claimed by distributors as unsold (and had had their cover logos/mastheads torn off and sent back as "proof" of unsold copies) that were then sent out to Ma & Pa groceries (or wherever) for sale again at some discount. If Fox was able to get "whole copy returns" (without the masthead torn off) from distributors, they could have been the components for these Giants. If that was the case, it would have been Fox trying to gain some value from them instead of letting crooked distributors resell them. (I did wonder whether some of the IW "reprints" of Fox comics were actually a reselling of old Fox printed contents with new covers attached. Perhaps Fox's use of inside front covers as the first page of stories was an attempt to foil the grey market by assuring that if a masthead was torn off it would also tear off part of the splash panel on the IFC.)

[OtherEric]

You are almost certainly correct that we're using the term "remaindered" incorrectly; we mean either leftovers or returns.  We don't know which at this point.

I've always assumed that Fox running the first story page on the IFC was a way to try and avoid the resales of stripped copies.  Then again, some of his later books have a story title on the first panel of the second page to make it somewhat easier to ease into the story if the cover is missing.  Which makes sense for the giants but defeats the original purpose of the IFC story page if that was the intention.  Who knows at this late date?

The IW books are not old contents with new covers; there are clear differences.  Most notably the loss of the book title at the top of each page.  IW, as I understand it, somehow got old plates and was printing from those.

[John C]

For what it's worth, the rule about sending the logo/masthead in lieu of returning existed (and still exists, I believe) to save the retailer postage costs, otherwise the cost of returning could be similar to the refund.  For that reason, it's very unlikely that these are returns--I get the impression that Fox would be too cheap to accomodate retailers further (covering their postage costs or sending someone to pick up the returns), and retailers aren't going to ship more than they need to.

So, they're probaly overruns--which in the book world do get sold as remaindered.  That still leaves the question open of whether the overrun was intentional (with the books destined for the Giants) or accidental (with the Giants designed to siphon off the excess), though.

[jrvandore]

There are one or two Fox giants for which one of the "remaindered" comics is a comic that was otherwise not released.  I'm not a Fox expert, but worked with one to get data on known combinations entered into the GCD.  I couldn't tell you which off the top of my head, but a quick stroll through the GCD records would.

[OtherEric]

Very true in that they're probably not returns, then.  Fox was notoriously cheap.  Would there have been returns of books from the distributor level, or would they destroy them as well?

The 1948 Almanac is unique in two ways, as far as I know:  it's the only one with an extra 16 page signature unique to the book and, in my admittedly limited sample, it's the only one where the sub-issues weren't individually stapled.

I didn't know the giants had otherwise unknown issues, but I seem to recall an otherwise unknown issue of Dorothy Lamour that showed up somewhere so it's less surprising that there are others.

[JonTheScanner]

I didn't know the giants had otherwise unknown issues, but I seem to recall an otherwise unknown issue of Dorothy Lamour that showed up somewhere so it's less surprising that there are others.

I scanned that Dorothy Lamour and I can't recall where the heck it was.  I think maybe in an issue of Red or Blue Circle or one of the other comics from the "publisher" whose name I won't mention because I also can't remember what we decided its name was.

[John C]

Would there have been returns of books from the distributor level, or would they destroy them as well?

That's something I hadn't considered at all...but also don't have any idea how that might work.

Though in the vein of "keep it cheap," and keeping in mind how many companies nearly went out of business after a dispute with the distributor, my guess would be that they trash the surplus and refuse to pay for it.

What I mean is that there's a lot of evidence that distributors don't pay until after THEY sell, and that a lot of their business practices revolve around saying "would I lie to you?"  But any conclusion drawn from that (like mine above) is just a guess.

[Henry Andrews (fox_centaur)]

Most of the Fox Giants are remaindered books, Yoc.  It's just the 1948 Almanac of Crime that isn't that I know of.  I think it's one of the first- if not THE first- Fox Giant.

It probably depends on how you define "Fox Giant".  One of the 1946 variations (or two of them, depending on whether you count by covers or by contents) of Everybody's Comics is a rebound surplus copy of either the Ribtickler giant or the 1944 giant issue of Everybody's Comics.  Of course, these were published by various surrogates, not by Fox itself.  Except that the 1946 new cover used to rebind the 1944 issues has the winking foxhead and is © Fox Feature Syndicate, Inc. (but has no publisher listed, just copyright).  One of the most vexing and confusing titles of the Golden Age.  I have the 1946 version that is a rebound 1944 issue, and tried to sort it out at the GCD.

http://www.comics.org/series/7434/

[OtherEric]

True enough, fox_centaur.  When I say "First Fox Giant" I mean specifically the standard "throw four random coverless books together" type; there were several others earlier I don't know that much about.  I suppose in that context the Almanac is something of a transition between the two types; the earlier ones were produced as Giant issues while the later ones were random.  This one has a small new section and a simulated random mix, even if it really wasn't.

[OtherEric]

And I'm now working on the Variety Comics giant.  This one is more clearly from leftover, stripped books:  there were even small (less that 1 inch) chunks from at least one of the original books.

A quick request:  if anybody with good search-fu is bored, could they try and locate a cover for My Love Memoirs #12?  GCD doesn't have it; Heritage had a group of three issues from which I have pulled a scan containing roughly 15% of the cover.  The only good thing about it is it gives me a frame for a note begging for a better copy of the cover!

[darkmark (RIP)]

It's great to know that a major TV network started out as a publisher of comic books. ;-)

Errr...we *are* talking about the same Fox, aren't we??