General Category > Comic Related Discussion
Frazetta the man and his Legacy.
Drusilla lives!:
--- Quote from: JVJ on May 26, 2010, 03:44:50 PM ---... IMO Frazetta didn't work much for DC because DC probably gave him deadlines and he hated deadlines. I've always been amazed at the long run he did at ME on White Indian - actually, other than his L'il Abner stretch, the longest continual stint on a single strip in his career. I can't explain it other than he must have loved doing it and probably had a lot of freedom. Maybe we should ask Nick Meglin, the last Fleagle standing, if he knew if FF wrote the strip, too. ...
--- End quote ---
You bring up a good example JVJ, to support my earlier "Batman" statement. From what I've seen of his White Indian work (and I'll admit up front that I haven't seen much of it) it looks as though he did "water down" his detailed style on some of it... which only leads me to believe that he would have been quite capable of penciling something like Batman for DC... whether he really would want to is another question... IMO it wasn't exactly in tune with his other sensibilities. Although I've read he always wanted to be a cartoonist, the material in most of DC's 50s and 60s superhero books were (IMO) rather goofy and childish... I suppose perfectly suited for its intended audience at the time... but somehow I doubt it would have appealed to Frazetta.
Don't get me wrong, I've grown to appreciate the material, and it's an enjoyable and refreshing change of pace once in awhile to sit down and read some of it... but as with anything, I wouldn't want to do so day in and day out. Personally I just can't see the artist who would later go on to create the definitive rendering of Conan (and in a sense in doing so, foreshadowing the coming of the anti-hero) enjoying that kind of work. So in this last regard (to his innate sensibilities as a creative individualist... which ultimately I think was reflected in his outward carefree ambivalence with regard to his career) I do agree with you.
John C:
--- Quote from: JonTheScanner on May 26, 2010, 04:41:41 PM ---They seldom (never?) used the original art for reprints. They had stats or film for that. They may not have wanted to bother to return the art though. Ownership of the original art no more gives the right to reprint than does ownership of a copy of the comic.
--- End quote ---
I didn't mean to imply otherwise. What I did mean to imply was that ownership of the original art (and the film and the plates) gives one de facto rights to render reprint rights mostly moot by depriving those with reprint rights of access.
JVJ (RIP):
I agree, DL, I'd be hesitant to describe what was going on back then as "negotiation".
I think that one of the conditions of working for Gaines was that he kept the artwork. If FF said no, I keep it, then it was simply a matter of one or the other weighing the money against the art. Either Gaines valued having a Frazetta story more than his "rule" or Frazetta valued the money for the job or the "prestige" or working for EC more than his art. One or the other happened, but it was probably more a battle of wills than a negotiation.
Gaines was pretty dogmatic, and he was pretty canny keeping all that art, but he also respected those artists and wanted the best for his company. Since Frazetta could have gotten work just about anywhere, perhaps the "rule" about originals turned out to be more flexible, or maybe Frank really needed some money that month.
I doubt that Frazetta's rep suffered at all from the reworking of the Famous Funnies cover for WSF #29. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Gaines knew about it and didn't care. After all, this was 1955 and Gaines was fighting for the life of his company. The etymology of one cover was probably not even in his top ten worries.
And, again, I don't think it was a matter of "watering down" the White Indian work so much as spending more effort on other jobs. The romance stories are some of his best work, IMHO, and Eastern didn't pay top dollar, so it HAD to be that the jobs were of more interest to him. Given the interest, he always did his best work. The "contract" or the "rights" or the page rate or anything else appears to have been either secondary or simply unimportant.
My reading of Frazetta is that he ALWAYS took the easy way out. Yes, he wanted to be a comic book artist, but he also wanted to be a baseball player. What I think he wanted was a good paying job that was easy and left him time to goof off. That "definitive" Conan painting was a rush job that he reworked considerably after it was printed. The same is true of many of his iconic paintings for Warren covers - many of which he turned in with the oil paints still wet. He could ALWAYS do better (compare the original Egyptian Queen and Cat Girl covers to their later versions), but the job had to appeal to him. For some reason, the Eastern romance stories did. White Indian must had some appeal, too, just because he stuck to it for so long. He seems to have lost interest in most jobs very quickly - how many romance stories did he do? How many SF stories? Crime stories? etc.
He was a complex genius, but like many geniuses, he was seldom challenged by anyone other than himself. I don't believe that Gaines did more than offer him a choice. And I think that Frazetta simply offered him one back. I suppose that could be called negotiation.
As for asking for original art back, Williamson always got his back just by asking at Toby and Atlas. Kinstler told me that Avon never had any qualms about him asking for his inside covers back. I think almost every publisher of comics treated original art as a means to an end. Most often that "end" was a printed comic book and after that they had zero interest. Gaines wanted it because he valued it. DC wanted it because they viewed giving it back as a weakness or a concession. Most other companies simply didn't give a damn one way or the other. I think Harvey kept the art, too, but they are the only other one that I've heard of - not that I've done a detailed study of the matter.
It's 1 AM here in Paris and I'm getting off of my soapbox. I just came back from a stimulating dinner with Sylvain Despretz and Jean Claude Mezieres and I am trying to wind down. Tossing Frank Frazetta into the evening's mix is the perfect nightcap.
Peace, Jim (|:{>
Again, all of the above is viewpoint and opinion.
Drusilla lives!:
--- Quote from: JVJ on May 27, 2010, 05:02:25 PM ---... And, again, I don't think it was a matter of "watering down" the White Indian work so much as spending more effort on other jobs. The romance stories are some of his best work, IMHO, and Eastern didn't pay top dollar, so it HAD to be that the jobs were of more interest to him. Given the interest, he always did his best work. The "contract" or the "rights" or the page rate or anything else appears to have been either secondary or simply unimportant. ...
--- End quote ---
I agree, and that's why I don't think he would have liked working on something like (mid 1950s) Batman or Superman, although you never know, artists do work on things just for the money.
I should add that although some of that White Indian stuff looks less detailed to me, it doesn't suffer at all from being so. In fact, IMO it's being very "dynamic and loose" looking really helps to free up the flow of the narrative... in other words, it fits the tone of the action-adventure story lines featured in that comic very well.
--- Quote ---... As for asking for original art back, Williamson always got his back just by asking at Toby and Atlas. Kinstler told me that Avon never had any qualms about him asking for his inside covers back. I think almost every publisher of comics treated original art as a means to an end. Most often that "end" was a printed comic book and after that they had zero interest. Gaines wanted it because he valued it. DC wanted it because they viewed giving it back as a weakness or a concession. Most other companies simply didn't give a damn one way or the other. I think Harvey kept the art, too, but they are the only other one that I've heard of - not that I've done a detailed study of the matter. ...
--- End quote ---
Now YOU sound like you're reading my mind JVJ! ;)
I was thinking of asking you just such a question... that is, did any of the artists you've ran into over the years mention anything regarding what it was like when trying to get back artwork and such... thanks for anticipating it.
All that can be said I guess is that each "house" had it's own set of rules and there was no collusion in the industry on such matters.
--- Quote ---It's 1 AM here in Paris and I'm getting off of my soapbox. I just came back from a stimulating dinner with Sylvain Despretz and Jean Claude Mezieres and I am trying to wind down. Tossing Frank Frazetta into the evening's mix is the perfect nightcap.
--- End quote ---
Bonsoir. Jusqu'à ce que nous parler à nouveau. :)
NobbyNobbs:
I am a bit unsure about this, but seem to remember Will Eisner talking about how the artists that wanted the original art back got it from the Eisner-Iger shop, in one of his "Shop Talks" in Kitchen Sinks Spirit Magazine.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version