Looking for a Victor Fox photo or drawing...

[David Lawrence]

I don't think there is any connection with that group of photos and "the" Victor S. Fox.  

I guess it's Kosher (pardon the pun) to post a couple of photos from the Sondheim book...Mariene Fox, Janet Fox (standing, Stephen Sondheim's mother), and mother Bessie.

The second, father Joseph.

[Yoc]

Thanks David!
A shame Mark's photos weren't the guy but there might be some relation no?

[StevenRowe]

Note that there is a history of Fox and Fox comics in the new Matt Baker book.  Not sourced there, but I expect one could either ask, or
find the info online. My copy is in storage,as I move,  but it should cover from his WW1
days supplying uniforms until his Cuba racetrack days.  The book itself  is a wonderful collection of material about and from Matt Baker,
and includes JVJ's talking about "Ace Baker" and who he really was.
            As for a photo ... oh well...

[David Lawrence]

I'll have to look at the Baker book...for more reasons than one.

One of the more intriguing things I've stumbled upon is a record of Fox flying from Libson to NYC in 1949.  What the hell was Fox doing in Portugal?  Could it somehow be related to the business in Cuba?

Also, it is the reason why I know Fox had a passport.  Didn't need one to travel to Canada or Mexico until post 9/11.  But for Europe, always.

[Yoc]

Thanks for the pointer Steve - I'll have to snag that Baker book as well.

[David Lawrence]

Is it "Matt Baker: The Art of Glamour" that we're talking about?  It's the most recent book on Baker I can find on Amazon.

[Drusilla lives!]

We've all got a little Victor Fox in us to one extent or another.  So I'm in no position to judge him, particularly since I didn't know him personally.

I'll just say that after reading the few accounts of the man (and seeing some of the comics he produced), my general impression of him is... if Victor Fox could make money selling Bibles he would, but he couldn't, so he didn't. 

And that's it, end of story... that's all there was to the man IMO. 

A rather sad, one dimensional character... and an anti-climatic conclusion to my interest in him as an historical figure in comicdom.   There are a lot of people like him out in the world... and always will be.

[David Lawrence]

I'd say Drusilla hit it on the head.  If he could make a buck selling uniforms it was uniforms.  It it was stocks it was stocks...even if they weren't legit.  If it was comic books or the comicscope, fine.  If it was Kooba Cola, all the better.

He was certainly an operator.  I think getting his hands of a bunch of confiscated ships...with basically no money down...was a pretty impressive trick.

I'm interested because of the lives and careers he touched.  He brought Joe Simon into the industry.  He brought in Jack.  He was the first client for Will Eisner.

One assumes they would have all found their way in anyway.  But not at the same time, not at the same place.

Certainly history would have been very different if Jack & Joe never partnered.

I think what has intrigued me is simply the shortage of solid facts about him despite his presence at key points in comic history...and the fun of trying to unravel a mystery.

[Yoc]

I don't begrudge an man making a buck, especially back then in that era - but PAY your artists and suppliers.  Praying on rookie artists who didn't know better was despicable.
Fox did give a lot of big names their first breaks but I have the feeling if you could draw a stick figure he would have hired you.

Frankly I've always felt far, far more sorry for 'The Major.'  Maj. Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson in much the same tight spot as Fox, he at least tried to pay his artists and the way he was fleeced out of National Comics was criminal.  Perhaps legal but still a moral crime IMO.  Fox was no worse than Donenfeld and Liebowitz, just less successful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Wheeler-Nicholson

[John C]

I'd say Drusilla hit it on the head.  If he could make a buck selling uniforms it was uniforms.  It it was stocks it was stocks...even if they weren't legit.  If it was comic books or the comicscope, fine.  If it was Kooba Cola, all the better.

Though keep in mind, it's one in a thousand business owners/CEOs that are remotely different.  Nobody prior to 1980 started a comic book company with the intent of bringing wonderful ideas to the masses.  Very few people start any company with any loftier idea, at the core, than not having to work nine-to-five.  And to do that, you go where the money is, wherever it is.

Except Kooba.  That was genius.  Advertise, and if someone actually orders it, find someone who makes soda or sell the brand.

[David Lawrence]

And of course we don't really know the whole truth about Fox's business practices.  He was in business nearly a decade and a half.  He must have paid somebody.

At least some of Fox's bad reputation comes from Will Eisner's claim that Fox stiffed him for refusing to perjure himself.  Well, that story has a huge hole it now.  Eisner did testify as Fox wanted...therefore no reason for Fox to withhold payment to get even.

So if Fox did indeed not pay up, maybe he flat out didn't have the money.  Or maybe he did pay but only in part.  If one part of Eisner's story doesn't hold up then in fairness the whole thing is in doubt.  In any event, Iger was willing to work with Fox a few years later...so who knows what happened?

And after 1952, what was the downside of badmouthing Fox?  Talk too much about a bad experience with Donenfeld or Goodman on the other hand and you could be blowing future assignments.

Yoc pretty much nailed it...Fox wasn't necessarily worse than his bigger competitors.  We will probably never know for sure.

[Yoc]

In 'Iger's Comic Kingdom', admittedly a horrible book for twisting facts, Iger skips the entire DC case but does mention he had to sue Fox for non payment later in the 40s.  So there is yet another Fox case out there somewhere.  I sure wish Fox had to take the stand in the DC case.  Getting his birth-date nailed down for sure would be nice.  I would imagine his draft card says as well.

Iger and Fox seemed to share the same mindset on money so I'm not surprised they worked together again.  "The devil you know, etc"

-Yoc

[David Lawrence]

Fox did take the stand in the Wonderman suit:
http://thecomicsdetective.blogspot.com/2010/07/dc-vs-victor-fox-testimony-of-iger-fox.html

Birthdate?  The date in general usage is accurate:

[Yoc]

Wonderful!  Thanks again David.
My mistake - they never asked Fox for the birthdate or address like they did Eisner.  Thanks so much for the info you've been sharing!

[John C]

In 'Iger's Comic Kingdom', admittedly a horrible book for twisting facts, Iger skips the entire DC case but does mention he had to sue Fox for non payment later in the 40s.  So there is yet another Fox case out there somewhere.

I wouldn't get your hopes up, Yoc.  It's entirely possible, of course, but the majority of lawsuits (as I recall) are settled out of court, and so wouldn't be recorded anywhere.  It's usually only when a judge gets involved that they start writing things down.

Something like Wonder Man could be worth fighting for, if it made even a few percent of what Superman did.  A few hundred bucks owed to an artist he might need to work with again later, though...?